Palestine Israel conflict?

Post Reply New Topic

My personal view is that Israel needs to pull completely out of Palestine, military and Jewish settlements and then start relocating refugees back into Israel.

Once that happens there will be a better chance for peace. So I see Israel is mainly in the wrong.

Looking at a map tells the story.

Last edited by MR_BOGAN on 24 May 2008, 6:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I am not trying to justify what happened to the original Arab occupants when Israel was created, but the Jews have been treated very badly for centuries, mainly by the Christian hierarchy, which finally resulted in the Hitler regime attempt at total elimination. Surely there are other historical and political factors involved but the massive guilt put upon the world by the Holocaust has given the Israelis huge justification for whatever they have done to secure and extend their regime. The Israelis are well aware of this very useful guilt and are using it very effectively to excuse whatever excesses they have and are now doing against the Palestinians. On a pure level of human decency both the Arabs and the Israelis have done and are doing terrible things to each other and this permits the generation of further guilt on both sides to justify their actions. The insane historical and religious claims both sides have on the territory are further justifications for fanatic disregard for basic human decency on both sides. To undo this massive self righteousness on both sides is almost impossible and suggestions for simple acceptance of the present difficulties and obvious solutions so that both sides can accommodate themselves to their mutual presence verge on fantasy. Sensible people on both sides foresee the impossible difficulties with the religious fanatics on both sides and the rising tide of the population of the Palestinians and the political maneuvering of the USA and the Arab nations. I have strong doubts a peaceful solution will come about and the other alternative is very likely to result in massive catastrophe for both the local people and the world in general.

Following your reasoning, that means we should seperate those two people and move them far away from one another? I voted Israel, mostly because they never respected any condition either the Brits or the UN gave them. "Don't make a state before the palestinians do! You're supposed to do it at the same time they do!" -brits go away... "pop" new state. UN: WTF? I've run out of sympathy for them, i don't think they shouldn't have been given a place to live, but the way they did it (through force and deceit) is wrong. (important distinction to make, not all israelis are jews, they can be zionist which is only a splinter sect of the jew diaspora and those are the ones who support the existence of Israel)

Typically,
U and the other ppl on this thread have no clue or any real info on the subject,
Fact is,
The Jews accept the UN partition plan while the Arabs reject it and 5 Arab nations attacked Israel the day it was born,
I don't know where u got the""Don't make a state before the Palestinians do! You're supposed to do it at the same time they do!" but it is very funny,
next time try to open a book and do some actual reading.
Israel has declares many time it willing to withdraw from the territories she occupied in a war forced on her,
but as the withdrawal from Gaza proves,
first it need some trustworthy partners and an honest pact,
Israel gave Sinai Back to the Egypt and made peace with Jordan,
But the many Attempts made to appease the Palestinians ended with slaughtered Israeli civilians,
If u knew anything about Israel u know it is very small place,
smaller than some of the world cities and there is no way it can handle the return of the refugees without falling apart.
Personally i think Israel should do more but i think it is very stupid and ill informed to place all the blame on Israel.


i Thought Aspies suppose to be learned,informed and impartial,
u r obviously a fake.

Amusing how you assume i never opened a book when i did a ~8 page work on that + whether or not the west and arabo-muslim world would ever be able to be reunited (and passed em). And what's with the personnal attack? You do know memory doesn't stay fresh unless you practice it right? -sigh- mine's just a bit out of shape perhaps...

The current Israeli policy seems to parallel the way the USA performed genocide on the native Americans but unfortunately for the Israelis the system is very different and the Palestinians have large allies in the area that will not let them be totally eliminated. Israeli has the most powerful military at the moment but the recent Lebanese fiasco has demonstrated that military might in the long run is not enough and the military capability of the Arabs is rising. You cannot merely tell a nation to disappear or roll up your country and walk away. That's not the way the world works so tough times are ahead.

How many nations are given a land freely and without conflict? To say that Israel is undeserving of that land because of the way they acquired it through war would also mean that we all should have guilt in our blood.

Who is to blame? Both sides are to blame, but who has made the most progress towards peace and unity? It wasn't the Palestinians. Arafat won a Nobel Peace Prize, yet he still supported the militias. Where was the peace that the people saw in him? Many times a cease fire is broken because Israel decides to counter-attack a militant or arrest one. I ask Why should Israel allow people who so want its nation to be destroyed allowed to live? If the people wanted peace they'd ostracize those who are seeking to destroy the offers.

Why do people hate Israel? People Israel is not going to lie on the ground or with their heads in the sand at all attacks. It is because Israel will defend itself against those who want her gone. The Palestinians have been known to acquire the foolish sympathies from the people by propaganda video after propaganda.

I wonder why people that live in a liberal and free society want Israel to give up its land. The only place in the middle east that gives the most rights to its citizens, they want it gone. Would they prefer to have another Saudi Arabia? Another hot-bed for terrorism and hate propaganda against the westerners who are fighting to give them back a land that is lost due to their inabilities to achieve peace?

"Another hot-bed for terrorism" Well, it's certainly going towards that heh? By keeping the two locked in war, they are nurturing ressentment from both sides. I reckon i saw a report once about a plane that had been bombed in midair by some guy, when they caught him, he defended himself during his trial by saying that the US were supporting Israel. =/ So heh.

Last edited by phil777 on 24 May 2008, 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

Hamas isn't the friendliest killing organization around. Neither the al-Aqsa martyrs brigade.

I don't really have much sympathy for either side. If it wasn't for religion and nationalism a solution would quickly be reached and the whole conflict would evaporate. Why in the 21st century do we still have conflicts over who has the favor of an invisible man in the sky? It's all complete idiocy.

And maybe because a majority of people believe in this invisible man in the sky the idiocy will continue until (or if) most people start to attend to their affairs rationally. Don't hold your breathe.

There's always people that are more radical than most. I recently watched a report about Iran said that most of its population was made up of young adults, not all of them have the concern of war on their mind. Their government chooses to send money to the resisting faction fighting against Israel. =/

I've been reading and listening to the views of many Iranian youths which brought me to believe there is a minority in Iran who are completely against the Islamic republic and its ideology. The youths aren't as hardline as their older counterparts. However, the conservatives are winning in the elections, but how free are they?













Your ignorance and simplistic view of the religions does not contribute to anything except idiocy.

Hum, for the sake of argumentation, could we avoid attacking each other on such delicate subject?...

How have I been ignorant? Do you imply that most people in the world do not believe in the invisible man in the sky? Or have you had coffee with Him and can speak of genuine contact? I'd like to hear about that.

no one here expect the Palestinians to disappear,
endless conventions and talks and resources were dedicated to an attempts to secure the two nation solution.
If Israel wanted to genocide the Palestinians it could do it in a couple of weeks,
the pals Allies in the area were never a match for the Israel power,
but unlike the Palestinians "allies",
who killed many times more Palestinians then Israel in the many years of conflict ever did,
Israel doesn't slaughter civilians as a policy,
And the "Lebanese fiasco" was partly caused by Israel policy,
which unlike that of the UK and the US,
keeps us from demolishing entire villages from the air and so gave the Hizbolla the opportunity to use it civilian population as a shield,
however,the Arabs, which u support, were firing intentionally at civilians and was admitting openly to that intentions so i find your moralistic pose ridiculous and hope that some day u'll understand that your hypocritical views is damaging to the cause of real peace/