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Tim_Tex
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17 Nov 2009, 6:19 am

For the first time, I wrote my congressman.

I expressed my concern about human rights issues.

I wanted to see if my letter would eventually result in same-sex marriage being legalized nationwide, because people in other parts of the world are seeing the U.S. as a nation of bigotry and hatred.

I also wanted to see if he could convince the federal government to have groups such as Westboro Baptist Church disbanded, and its members given life sentences. Also, I wanted to see if he could have the 700 Club taken off the air for inciting hate-speech.

I just want people like Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps (pastor at Westboro), as well as Rod Parsley and John Hagee, put in jail for life so they can end their bigoted ways. I have asked for every legislation short of banning religion outright and making the U.S. an officially atheist nation.


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Jimbeaux
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17 Nov 2009, 3:19 pm

So basically you want to repeal the First Amendment for speech you don't agree with?

Yeah, good luck with that.



Tim_Tex
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17 Nov 2009, 3:23 pm

The U.S. needs hate-speech legislation similar to the ones in Sweden. In Sweden, reciting Leviticus 18:22 (the verse that says homosexuality is an "abomination") is considered hate-speech, and one pastor there by the name of Ake Green was arrested for reciting said verse.


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17 Nov 2009, 3:24 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:

I just want people like Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps (pastor at Westboro), as well as Rod Parsley and John Hagee, put in jail for life so they can end their bigoted ways. I have asked for every legislation short of banning religion outright and making the U.S. an officially atheist nation.


Being a bigot is not, nor should it be a capital offense. One of the consequences of free speech is the freedom to utter unpleasant and disagreeable things.

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17 Nov 2009, 3:37 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
For the first time, I wrote my congressman.

I expressed my concern about human rights issues.

I wanted to see if my letter would eventually result in same-sex marriage being legalized nationwide, because people in other parts of the world are seeing the U.S. as a nation of bigotry and hatred.

I also wanted to see if he could convince the federal government to have groups such as Westboro Baptist Church disbanded, and its members given life sentences. Also, I wanted to see if he could have the 700 Club taken off the air for inciting hate-speech.

I just want people like Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps (pastor at Westboro), as well as Rod Parsley and John Hagee, put in jail for life so they can end their bigoted ways. I have asked for every legislation short of banning religion outright and making the U.S. an officially atheist nation.

I second that.

Quote:
The U.S. needs hate-speech legislation similar to the ones in Sweden. In Sweden, reciting Leviticus 18:22 (the verse that says homosexuality is an "abomination") is considered hate-speech, and one pastor there by the name of Ake Green was arrested for reciting said verse.

I second that.

ruveyn wrote:
One of the consequences of free speech is the freedom to utter unpleasant and disagreeable things.

The concept of freedom of speech should be reexamined.


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Jimbeaux
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17 Nov 2009, 3:37 pm

First off, Green was acquitted.

Second, there is no way the United States could have hate speech laws, as they would be instantly overturned in court due to the First Amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..."

In order to create an amendment that would repeal the first, it must be proposed to the states by a two-thirds vote of both houses of Congress, and ratified by three-quarters of the states.

And remember, the First Amendment protects YOUR rights of free speech also. Since Christians make up over 76% of America, I would be more concerned about statements AGAINST Christianity being legislated into hate speech.

Then, you have Article 1, section 9 of the Constitution, which states that no ex post facto Law shall be passed (punishing someone for an action that was performed before said action was declared a crime).

And I don't remember hearing Robertson or Hagee advocating removing someone's right of due process and incarcerating them the life for being Homosexual, so to be honest, I'm seeing a lot more "hate speech" coming from you than from them.



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17 Nov 2009, 6:08 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
For the first time, I wrote my congressman.

I expressed my concern about human rights issues.

I wanted to see if my letter would eventually result in same-sex marriage being legalized nationwide, because people in other parts of the world are seeing the U.S. as a nation of bigotry and hatred.

I also wanted to see if he could convince the federal government to have groups such as Westboro Baptist Church disbanded, and its members given life sentences. Also, I wanted to see if he could have the 700 Club taken off the air for inciting hate-speech.

I just want people like Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps (pastor at Westboro), as well as Rod Parsley and John Hagee, put in jail for life so they can end their bigoted ways. I have asked for every legislation short of banning religion outright and making the U.S. an officially atheist nation.



I think you lost your potential influence on the first issue by going way, way too far with the second and third. What you are suggesting is criminalizing opinions, and I could not disagree with you more, as distasteful as some opinions may be. It would be wrong to criminalize an opinion, ANY opinion. That can backfire on you in a big way. In fact, you may actually be harming the cause on the first issue by association.

It depends on the reasons you are writing. To identify something that can and should be changed, and to effect that change, or to blow off some steam. If the later, mission accomplished.


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Tim_Tex
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17 Nov 2009, 7:32 pm

While I now agree about free speech, those fundamentalist groups have caused tons people a great deal of anguish. I can't stand those people. Part of me wants to go up to Topeka and disrupt one of WBC's protests and go up to them and yell "Hell Doesn't Exist", and "God Loves F*gs", and then punch either Fred or his daughter Shirley if they get into my face and yell "You're Going to Hell!".


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Jimbeaux
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17 Nov 2009, 7:49 pm

I hear ya, Tim.

Phelps and his followers are so far out in their own league of crazy. I love reading stories about counter protests to his group. Like one time a motorcycle gang surrounded them and revved their engines so as to drowned out their venom spewing.

His big thing is lawsuits. They go to these funerals and are just so outrageous and offensive to people who are grieving, that occasionally one of them will snap and do something physical to Phelps or his followers. Then they are hit with a lawsuit and end up having to pay out the nose.
I'm convinced it is just a big money-making racket.



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17 Nov 2009, 7:59 pm

I would never resort to violence, but it's difficult for me to sleep at night knowing that those people are allowed to torment grieving families like that.

As for Rod Parsley, he has a large megachurch in Columbus, Ohio. He is a staunch supporter of the war in Iraq, but rather than mentioning WMDs or 9/11 in his sermons, it almost sounds like he simply hates Muslims.

The day after 9/11, Pat Robertson (along with the now-deceased Jerry Falwell) blamed 9/11 on the ACLU, feminists, pagans, and gays--rather than al-Qaida.

Even though not directly, I somehow feel threatened by these people. And the fact that I am a Lutheran makes me an even easier target because the Lutheran Church recently agreed to ordain gay/lesbian pastors.


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Last edited by Tim_Tex on 17 Nov 2009, 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LouisF
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17 Nov 2009, 8:03 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
For the first time, I wrote my congressman.

I expressed my concern about human rights issues.

I wanted to see if my letter would eventually result in same-sex marriage being legalized nationwide, because people in other parts of the world are seeing the U.S. as a nation of bigotry and hatred.

I also wanted to see if he could convince the federal government to have groups such as Westboro Baptist Church disbanded, and its members given life sentences. Also, I wanted to see if he could have the 700 Club taken off the air for inciting hate-speech.

I just want people like Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps (pastor at Westboro), as well as Rod Parsley and John Hagee, put in jail for life so they can end their bigoted ways. I have asked for every legislation short of banning religion outright and making the U.S. an officially atheist nation.

How about expressing concern about how people with AS are treated. The gay rights movement can and do whine more than loudly enough for itself - please do something more productive.

As for Fred Phelps, I think he is cool.



Tim_Tex
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17 Nov 2009, 8:23 pm

I am worried that if these people have enough political clout, not only will abortion and same-sex marriage be banned, but so will alcohol, rock music, dancing, the Simpsons, South Park, premarital sex or any sexual acts not resulting in procreation, independent/arthouse/foreign films.

Pat Robertson actually did run for president in 1988, by the way. If he had won, we would have become a Christian fundamentalist dictatorship.

The things in bold are things I like or have no problem with.


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Jimbeaux
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17 Nov 2009, 9:28 pm

The vast majority of conservative Christians just want to be left alone. We don't want Government telling us how to live our lives, and just want to make our way through life taking care of our families.

My political philosophy is "Do what you want, just don't expect me to pay for it." This philosophy is very prevalent in mainstream NT society.

You don't need to worry.



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17 Nov 2009, 9:34 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I am worried that if these people have enough political clout, not only will abortion and same-sex marriage be banned, but so will alcohol, rock music, dancing, the Simpsons, South Park, premarital sex or any sexual acts not resulting in procreation, independent/arthouse/foreign films.

Pat Robertson actually did run for president in 1988, by the way. If he had won, we would have become a Christian fundamentalist dictatorship.

The things in bold are things I like or have no problem with.

So hang on, you want to stop America becoming a fascist dictatorship by making one yourself? And your grand plan to do this is writing a few letters to some congressmen saying pretty please. Just pointing out how it looks, but anyway...

You are doing yourself a disservice here. It is far better to get involved in politics where people might listen to you, like Autism Rights. Though if Human Rights are of real interest to you, how about getting involved with your local Amnesty group, or just helping with letter writing campaigns on their website. You might learn a good few political skills that way, its a good way to break in.



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18 Nov 2009, 1:56 am

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech. You take the good with the bad.



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18 Nov 2009, 10:29 am

Jimbeaux wrote:
The vast majority of conservative Christians just want to be left alone. We don't want Government telling us how to live our lives, and just want to make our way through life taking care of our families.

Not even remotely true.


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