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LiberalJustice
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22 Feb 2010, 7:43 pm

that all Jails, Prisons, and Penitentiaries, have a Psychiatric Ward? Just asking.


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Sand
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22 Feb 2010, 9:01 pm

LiberalJustice wrote:
that all Jails, Prisons, and Penitentiaries, have a Psychiatric Ward? Just asking.


Considering the willingness of psychologists and psychiatrists to participate in the grisly grisly torture procedures of Guantanamo I am not so confident formal psychological people are trustworthy.



Apple_in_my_Eye
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22 Feb 2010, 10:07 pm

Politicians probably aren't going to waste time advocating anything that sounds like "lets be nice to prisoners." It's so much easier to muster votes with hate, i.e. "they get to sleep in BEDS!! do you know how much that costs?! ! I say we make them sleep on concrete!!1!"

I have to agree with Sand, also. I think prisoners have more human rights than psych patients anyway, so a psych ward could easily work out to be the opposite of an improvement.



LiberalJustice
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23 Feb 2010, 1:17 am

Sand wrote:
LiberalJustice wrote:
that all Jails, Prisons, and Penitentiaries, have a Psychiatric Ward? Just asking.


Considering the willingness of psychologists and psychiatrists to participate in the grisly grisly torture procedures of Guantanamo I am not so confident formal psychological people are trustworthy.
First off, I mean why isn't it the law that all Prisons, Jails, and Penitentiaries have a psych ward, I simply meant all of those that are in the country. Second, I don't think that psychologists and psychiatrists should be torturing people, I simply think that it should be the law that all correctional facilities have one so that inmates who are in need of psychiatric treatment can get it without having to be sent to another place that has one.


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Tensu
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26 Feb 2010, 6:52 pm

To say "I don't think psychologists and psychiatrists should torture people" is a lot like saying "I don't think farmers should grow food".



LiberalJustice
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26 Feb 2010, 7:24 pm

Tensu wrote:
To say "I don't think psychologists and psychiatrists should torture people" is a lot like saying "I don't think farmers should grow food".
How is me saying that I don't think psychologists and psychiatrists should torture people (especially the way that the people at Guantanamo are being tortured) equivalent to saying Farmers shouldn't grow food? Why do you think it shouldn't be the law that all Correctional Facilities have mental hospitals, anyway? The purpose of that would be to give Jails, Penetentiaries, and Prisons the ability to provide psychiatric treatment to inmates who might need it without having to go through all the trouble of sending them somewhere else.


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Tensu
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26 Feb 2010, 10:13 pm

I am saying psychology and psychiatry are themselves forms of torture.



fidelis
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26 Feb 2010, 10:58 pm

In the end what real benefits would it have? Let's say every facility had to have a psychiatric section. Now people can receive psychiatric help. Why would they need psychiatric help? Well that's simple: they are psychologically damaged and that's why they end up in prison. So now it is accepted that all prisoners belong in psychiatric wards. So why do we even have prisons?

We don't. Prisons are merely psychiatric wards for those who are more stable than the rest. I hope that answers your question, because it doesn't answer my question for why we have prison security instead of psychologists and security guards to protect the peace?


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LiberalJustice
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27 Feb 2010, 2:45 am

fidelis wrote:
In the end what real benefits would it have? Let's say every facility had to have a psychiatric section. Now people can receive psychiatric help. Why would they need psychiatric help? Well that's simple: they are psychologically damaged and that's why they end up in prison. So now it is accepted that all prisoners belong in psychiatric wards. So why do we even have prisons?

We don't. Prisons are merely psychiatric wards for those who are more stable than the rest. I hope that answers your question, because it doesn't answer my question for why we have prison security instead of psychologists and security guards to protect the peace?
Prisons and Jails exist to punish people for a crime or a number of crimes they have commited. Psychiatric Wards exist to provide treatment to the insane. Even if a person is not mentally stable, if they have broken the law then they deserve some form of punishment for their actions. I'm not saying you should whip them a thousand times, as that would make their condition worse, but they should be punished in some way so they get the message that what they did was wrong. If Penetentiaries, Jails, and Prisons had Psychiatric areas, then a person would both be punished for a crime but yet also be able to recieve treatment if it is deemed necessary.


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Sand
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27 Feb 2010, 5:12 am

LiberalJustice wrote:
fidelis wrote:
In the end what real benefits would it have? Let's say every facility had to have a psychiatric section. Now people can receive psychiatric help. Why would they need psychiatric help? Well that's simple: they are psychologically damaged and that's why they end up in prison. So now it is accepted that all prisoners belong in psychiatric wards. So why do we even have prisons?

We don't. Prisons are merely psychiatric wards for those who are more stable than the rest. I hope that answers your question, because it doesn't answer my question for why we have prison security instead of psychologists and security guards to protect the peace?
Prisons and Jails exist to punish people for a crime or a number of crimes they have commited. Psychiatric Wards exist to provide treatment to the insane. Even if a person is not mentally stable, if they have broken the law then they deserve some form of punishment for their actions. I'm not saying you should whip them a thousand times, as that would make their condition worse, but they should be punished in some way so they get the message that what they did was wrong. If Penetentiaries, Jails, and Prisons had Psychiatric areas, then a person would both be punished for a crime but yet also be able to recieve treatment if it is deemed necessary.


The problem, of course, is determining if the lack of psychiatric care or the presence of it is cruel and unusual punishment.



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27 Feb 2010, 11:21 am

Tensu wrote:
I am saying psychology and psychiatry are themselves forms of torture.


And they are not even sciences.

ruveyn



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27 Feb 2010, 12:16 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Tensu wrote:
I am saying psychology and psychiatry are themselves forms of torture.


And they are not even sciences.

ruveyn


And neither is mathematics, but that is one of the most useful things since towels.


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Sand
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27 Feb 2010, 12:22 pm

fidelis wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Tensu wrote:
I am saying psychology and psychiatry are themselves forms of torture.


And they are not even sciences.

ruveyn


And neither is mathematics, but that is one of the most useful things since towels.


Mathematics makes no pretensions about being a science. It is merely a very precise language to describe self consistent systems, either actual or imaginary.



fidelis
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27 Feb 2010, 12:28 pm

Sand wrote:
fidelis wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Tensu wrote:
I am saying psychology and psychiatry are themselves forms of torture.


And they are not even sciences.

ruveyn


And neither is mathematics, but that is one of the most useful things since towels.


Mathematics makes no pretensions about being a science. It is merely a very precise language to describe self consistent systems, either actual or imaginary.


All math is imaginary. Also, psychology is starting to take a few pointers from math. First, psychology is starting to temporarily ignore the idea that all thins need explaining, and instead are just modeling human behavior to get very precise results. Secondly, psychology is not trying to be it's own branch of science, but a tool for other sciences.


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Psychopompos
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27 Feb 2010, 1:25 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Tensu wrote:
I am saying psychology and psychiatry are themselves forms of torture.


And they are not even sciences.


Psychiatry is a field of medicine.


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fidelis
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27 Feb 2010, 2:04 pm

Psychopompos wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
Tensu wrote:
I am saying psychology and psychiatry are themselves forms of torture.


And they are not even sciences.


Psychiatry is a field of medicine.


Maybe by definition, but I have never met one psychologist who could tell me how ANY psychiatric medicine works. They just observe symptoms and adjust the medication according to the side effects, to create a balance. Needless to say they aren't very good at it. It actually reminds me more of a game.


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