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NeantHumain
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06 Mar 2010, 8:02 pm

Recently, some threads have been discussing the pros and cons of fascism, communism, and other ideologies; but what is fascism? I will first reach for some qualities that seem to be common to most strands of fascism:

  • Fascism is a right-wing authoritarian ideology that demands total submission to the state; it defers from left-wing totalitarianism on the basis of its opposition to Marxism/Bolshevism, equality, and other left-wing ideals.
  • Fascism is anti-democratic. Fascism demands one-party rule with a lack of popular accountability.
  • Fascism is illiberal. Loyalty, obedience, and conformity are the hallmark virtues of the fascist, and freedoms that may allow someone to criticize the government or propose an alternative are forbidden. As such, freedoms of speech, the press, association, religion, etc. are all suspended.
  • Fascism requires a fanatical nationalism of its citizens.
  • Fascism is right-wing, supporting traditional notions such as the patriarchal nuclear family, traditional religious institutions, the monarchy, and often the business class.
  • Fascism proposes a "realist" Hobbesian view of the world brutal conflict for survival: On the international stage, this is realized as the nation against all; domestically, this is realized as the strong against the weak (the weak being as something holding the glory of the nation back, something to be destroyed). Racial impurities and political subversives are seen as something to be violently suppressed.
Examples of fascist regimes include:
  • Nazi Germany
  • Fascist Italy
  • Austrofascist Austria before its invasion by Nazi Germany
  • Spain under the Falange
  • Portugal under the Estado Novo
  • The Chilean Military Junta
  • Many say the Republican Party in the United States has leanings towards fascism.



Descartes
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06 Mar 2010, 11:09 pm

In other words, the Religious Right.



Orwell
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06 Mar 2010, 11:22 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
[*] Fascism is a right-wing authoritarian ideology that demands total submission to the state; it defers from left-wing totalitarianism on the basis of its opposition to Marxism/Bolshevism, equality, and other left-wing ideals.

More or less right, but fascism has been around longer than Marxism so I don't think it can quite be defined in opposition to Marxism. Also, fascism is not necessarily opposed to equality. Egalitarian forms of fascism did (and do) exist. Indeed, Mussolini and Hitler both got their starts in the political world as socialists.

Quote:
[*] Fascism is anti-democratic. Fascism demands one-party rule with a lack of popular accountability.

Not necessarily. Fascism is opposed to the social values usually associated with democracy, but not necessarily to democracy. A fascist state could also be accountable to popular desires (though I will admit it usually is not).

Quote:
[*] Fascism is illiberal. Loyalty, obedience, and conformity are the hallmark virtues of the fascist, and freedoms that may allow someone to criticize the government or propose an alternative are forbidden. As such, freedoms of speech, the press, association, religion, etc. are all suspended.

This is the best definition you've proposed.

Quote:
[*] Fascism requires a fanatical nationalism of its citizens.

Yes, fascism is nationalistic.

Quote:
[*] Fascism is right-wing, supporting traditional notions such as the patriarchal nuclear family, traditional religious institutions, the monarchy, and often the business class.

Not necessarily, fascism can often be anti-religious, institute radical changes in social/family structure, oppose traditional religious institutions (seeing them as a threat to State power), overthrow monarchs, and rail against the business class.

Quote:
[*] Fascism proposes a "realist" Hobbesian view of the world brutal conflict for survival: On the international stage, this is realized as the nation against all; domestically, this is realized as the strong against the weak (the weak being as something holding the glory of the nation back, something to be destroyed). Racial impurities and political subversives are seen as something to be violently suppressed.

More just nationalism than fascism, though the two often go hand in hand.

Quote:
[*] Many say the Republican Party in the United States has leanings towards fascism.

That's unfair. There are certain illiberal elements within the Republican party, and a few small factions that occasionally flirt with the borders of fascism, but the Republican party as a whole is nowhere near fascist, just as the Democratic party is nowhere near socialist.


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Awesomelyglorious
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06 Mar 2010, 11:44 pm

Orwell wrote:
Quote:
[*] Many say the Republican Party in the United States has leanings towards fascism.

That's unfair. There are certain illiberal elements within the Republican party, and a few small factions that occasionally flirt with the borders of fascism, but the Republican party as a whole is nowhere near fascist, just as the Democratic party is nowhere near socialist.

Hey, many people do say it though. I suppose you could say that this is disingenuous because a lot of people say a lot of things, but still, it is technically correct.

(Btw, many people say that Awesomelyglorious is awesome and glorious! :P )



devark
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06 Mar 2010, 11:47 pm

The way the US Federal government is now operating, and with the line between corporate and special interest essentially gone, it makes me wonder how it isn't already widely referred to as fascist. I mean, the room for political dissent is almost nonexistent and the little we do have is widely ignored. The top 1% controls 99% of the wealth and the mingling of mega corporations, bankers, and government keep it that way. I know its not as simple as that (and for all I know my perspective could very well be skewed) , but it sure looks that way. Maybe I should just accept it as corporatism and get over it lol.


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pakled
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07 Mar 2010, 12:00 am

According to Godwin's law, a fascist is anyone who doesn't support your side politically...;)

Modern fascism goes back to the 20s, Marxism goes back to at least 1848 (the Manifesto)

Is there still a spectre haunting Europe?...;)


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swansong
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07 Mar 2010, 12:52 am

Fascism is not a completely objective term. Fascism generally means despotic state which opposes collectivism.

But calling fascism "right-wing" is a misnomer. Fascism opposes the left-wing, but that doesn't make it right-wing.
There is overlap between economic and social freedom. Right-wing means economic freedom, but when social freedom is taken away, some economic freedom is taken away as well.



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08 Mar 2010, 7:59 am

Fascism is the merger of big business and government.

This may have been true in Italy or America today but it was NOT true in NAZI Germany.

NAZI = National Socialist Workers Party.

If Hitler didn't care about "the workers" then why did he create hundreds of thousands of workers homes to be built?
Why did he make cruise ships to take German workers for holidays?

Why did he create public housing and say "When you have your first baby then 25% of your mortgage is forgiven. When you have your second child then 50% of your mortgage is forgiven. Third child 75% and forth child, you own it."



TitusLucretiusCarus
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08 Mar 2010, 10:01 am

Quote:
Also, fascism is not necessarily opposed to equality. Egalitarian forms of fascism did (and do) exist. Indeed, Mussolini and Hitler both got their starts in the political world as socialists.


??????????

yeah, they really stood by their egalitarin principles to the bitter end.



Orwell
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08 Mar 2010, 10:14 am

TitusLucretiusCarus wrote:
Quote:
Also, fascism is not necessarily opposed to equality. Egalitarian forms of fascism did (and do) exist. Indeed, Mussolini and Hitler both got their starts in the political world as socialists.


??????????

yeah, they really stood by their egalitarin principles to the bitter end.

"Started out" was the key point there. Anyways, the NSDAP was a worker's party- National Socialist German Worker's Party. There is no necessary conflict between egalitarianism and fascism.


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TitusLucretiusCarus
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08 Mar 2010, 12:52 pm

sooooo.....murdering approx. 6 million people because of a perceived racial difference was the act of an egalitarian?



Orwell
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08 Mar 2010, 2:52 pm

I'm not going to defend Nazism, Titus. I don't know what you're getting at.


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TitusLucretiusCarus
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08 Mar 2010, 4:45 pm

:lol:

Image

two in one day. I'm impressed to be honest.