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Quote on prayer!

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CaptainTrips222
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07 May 2010, 7:13 pm

I heard this somewhere:

"Asking the most powerful being in existence for personal help is the most selfish act you can perform."

I don't agree with this, as it doesn't really make sense, but where is this from? By the way, it's paraphrased.



Asmodeus
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07 May 2010, 7:31 pm

Yeah, I also believe asking for Obama for help is justified, I mean we do elect him to rule us after all.



leejosepho
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07 May 2010, 8:03 pm

CaptainTrips222 wrote:
I heard this somewhere:

"Asking the most powerful being in existence for personal help is the most selfish act you can perform."

... where is this from? By the way, it's paraphrased.


People have all kinds of reasons for criticizing, mocking and/or ridiculing others who pray, but such actions always stem from ego, fear, pride and/or simple ignorance.

There is nothing wrong with asking a father for bread, and there is nothing wrong with asking for our father-in-the-heavens' provision ...

"Ask and it shall be given to you, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be opened to you."

However, that does not mean we can just sit on our butts and expect hot dogs to appear from thin air ...

"If any would not work, neither should he eat."

"Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth."


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auntblabby
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08 May 2010, 1:02 am

i would not begrudge anybody a last-minute prayer of abject desperation, when all others have forsaken thee.



HermanTheTosser
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08 May 2010, 4:22 am

CaptainTrips222 wrote:
I heard this somewhere:

"Asking the most powerful being in existence for personal help is the most selfish act you can perform."

I don't agree with this, as it doesn't really make sense, but where is this from? By the way, it's paraphrased.


I agree with you.

If I were a religious person, I'd see the sense in it too if desperate. I mean, asking a being that is supposedly all-powerful to help you when he hasn't bothered to lift a finger for nearly anyone else isn't selfishness on your part, it's not your personal fault the great Sky Tyrant hasn't bothered to help anyone before, it's his.



CaptainTrips222
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08 May 2010, 4:33 am

HermanTheTosser wrote:
CaptainTrips222 wrote:
I heard this somewhere:

"Asking the most powerful being in existence for personal help is the most selfish act you can perform."

I don't agree with this, as it doesn't really make sense, but where is this from? By the way, it's paraphrased.


I agree with you.

If I were a religious person, I'd see the sense in it too if desperate. I mean, asking a being that is supposedly all-powerful to help you when he hasn't bothered to lift a finger for nearly anyone else isn't selfishness on your part, it's not your personal fault the great Sky Tyrant hasn't bothered to help anyone before, it's his.


Well, I meant it in a more abstract way- we don't know the nature or limitations of God or anything beyond this world, so how can we say asking for its help is selfish? Still, I understand your apparent irritation with the notion of God.



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08 May 2010, 4:53 am

Well the idea of an all-powerful god presupposes that such a god would be able to fix everything - so asking an all-powerful god isn't selfish, but practical. Though a world where there actually was a wish-granting sky-fairy would be a scary place.



CaptainTrips222
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08 May 2010, 6:00 am

Celoneth wrote:
Well the idea of an all-powerful god presupposes that such a god would be able to fix everything - so asking an all-powerful god isn't selfish, but practical. Though a world where there actually was a wish-granting sky-fairy would be a scary place.


If that's all he did, why would it be scary? Oh... because people asking for said fairy to kill their enemies, and give them weapons.



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08 May 2010, 7:28 am

auntblabby wrote:
i would not begrudge anybody a last-minute prayer of abject desperation, when all others have forsaken thee.


The desperation is actually quite optional. Any father here would already know the satisfaction and good feeling of even meeting a child's quiet request.


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Sand
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08 May 2010, 8:40 am

Not selfish, merely arrogant. What you're saying is God doesn't know what He's doing and he needs a human to point Him in the right direction. That is, if the claims of God being totally aware are to be taken seriously.



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08 May 2010, 9:31 am

Sand wrote:
Not selfish, merely arrogant. What you're saying is God doesn't know what He's doing and he needs a human to point Him in the right direction. That is, if the claims of God being totally aware are to be taken seriously.

Unless the scripture is true that says: The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to man.(Psalm 115:16)

If God gave the earth to man (as opposed to appointing them stewards as some Christians claim) then he has no authority to act here unless men ask him to.


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Sand
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08 May 2010, 10:00 am

NobelCynic wrote:
Sand wrote:
Not selfish, merely arrogant. What you're saying is God doesn't know what He's doing and he needs a human to point Him in the right direction. That is, if the claims of God being totally aware are to be taken seriously.

Unless the scripture is true that says: The highest heavens belong to the LORD, but the earth he has given to man.(Psalm 115:16)

If God gave the earth to man (as opposed to appointing them stewards as some Christians claim) then he has no authority to act here unless men ask him to.


Then all that stuff about Sodom and Gomorrah and Noah's flood and poor Job's trials means you cannot trust God to keep his word.



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08 May 2010, 8:35 pm

To me prayer seems an insult. If your god has everything planned out, praying for something different is telling god you are not happy with his grand vision.

Its like that spoiled 16 year old girl that got a brand new corvette. She had a fit because...... it was the wrong color.


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leejosepho
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08 May 2010, 9:15 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
To me prayer seems an insult. If ...


Yes, maybe if. But until then, He enjoys our petitions and meeting them just as any father would.


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Lecks
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08 May 2010, 9:44 pm

leejosepho wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
To me prayer seems an insult. If ...


Yes, maybe if. But...

Yes, maybe but.



Sand
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09 May 2010, 12:40 am

leejosepho wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
To me prayer seems an insult. If ...


Yes, maybe if. But until then, He enjoys our petitions and meeting them just as any father would.


Psychoanalyzing God again? How confidently you look into the mind of a being so superior to you that our mind is to His not much different than that of a cockroach. No wonder you feel he could be interested in telling Him how inferior His judgments are to your suggestions. Of course, He could be amused..... But then, assuming He exists as has been proclaimed down the ages, I have no more capability of comprehending the creator of universes than you do.