What's wrong with worshipping a golden calf?

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Golden calf - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia According to the Hebrew Bible, the golden calf...was an idol (a cult image) made by Aaron to satisfy the Israelites ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_calf - Cached - Similar (Google)

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Last edited by pgd on 19 Jul 2010, 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

From Christian perspective, there is a HUGE problem with worshiping a golden calf.

The main issue is the problem of worshiping man-made images. People engaged in idol worship do so because they believe they can manipulate whatever god the image represents into granting their wishes. Being man-made, there is nothing that the god CAN do for its supplicants.

Second, all creation points to its Creator. The image of a cow only points to the image of creation--another cow. And in so doing, we worship what was created for us to our benefit, NOT the God responsible for said creation.

Third, rituals involved in idol worship historically have been really nasty--incest, prostitution, and child-sacrifice just to name a few. True worship of God discourages followers from continuing in sinful activity, not encourage and facilitate disobedience.

Fourth, God made man in the image (likeness) of Himself. Therefore there is no need for any other physical representation or manifestation of God Himself, though God Himself does make personal appearances from time to time throughout recorded scripture. All the image a person needs is to look upon other people. You want to show your love for God? Buy a homeless guy a meal. Tell your spouse and your children you love them. Work hard at your job so that you and those you work for/work for you/with you have success. Donate to a charity. Don't waste your effort on a worthless piece of metal, stone, or wood. Inanimate objects don't NEED you. The people God created in His image DO.

The existence of an idol does not cause incest and prostitution. Those were part of those religions regardless of the shape of the statue. Besides, its not like Christian figures didn't keep it in the family. (Everyone after Cain and Abel? Abraham and Sara? All that "begatting" with each other's cousins/neices etc? Or how about Lot and his daughters?) Or how about all that GENOCIDE that God has required? The wilful murder of whole races.

And have you not BEEN in a church? They are literally neck deep in man-made iconography, renderings and statuary of all manner of people involved in Christianity, Saints, Jesus, Mary etc. In fact most of organised Christianity relies on the requirement for people to go to specific places at specific times and do specific things, and punishing them for not doing so. Whole new offshoots of Christianity have been born based on avoiding the restrictive, often cruel and invariable "orders from God himself" by one set of men against another.

Nothing, but it's kind of weird.
Really though, in my opinion worshipping a golden calf is no different to worshipping the judeo-christian god, allah, zeus, jesus etc. If you want to worship it, just go ahead and do so.

Are you assuming I'm Catholic? I'm not. I don't say "Hail Mary's" and I don't light candles in front of pictures of saints. And of that, I'm not even sure what is stereotypical of Catholicism and what is actually taught. You'll need to talk to someone else about that.

The only imagery we have in the church I attend are stained glass windows that present the NT story in miniature. The windows remind us of the account of Christ. They are not objects of worship themselves.

The only ritualized services we have are baptism and communion (Lord's Supper), both of which we observe as the only rites Jesus asks that we do as acts of obedience and remembrance. We recognize that those acts of worship cannot save us from sin, but are rather outward expression of our faith.

I'm not going to deny that there have been and will continue to be those who come "in the name of the Lord" that only know enough about the Bible to be dangerous. That's part of my motivation for actually reading and STUDYING the Bible because there's just too much messed-up stuff going around out there.

And often times those people have much darker motives. Simply SAYING you are a child of God doesn't make you one. Simply waving around a Bible doesn't mean you actually know what's in it. And just because there are those who call themselves Christians to further their own, self-centered, self-seeking motives does not mean that the message of the Gospels and the rest of the Bible is wrong.

Not only that, but you also have to take into account what kind of Christian you are dealing with. Pay attention to new converts. The only thing a newborn baby knows is that it has been born, and the first part of life is learning to sustain that life. If you've ever been around newborn babies and small children for very long, you'll know how demanding they are. New converts are the same way and can't be expected to be much different. They have to LEARN, and that takes time. Those are the kind of people that we'll see in here from time to time being brazen about their beliefs and how "I'm right and you're going to hell" when they don't really understand what it all means. You'll squash them in logical arguments because their thinking hasn't taken them quite that far yet. And perhaps that is good for them to some degree. But you can't judge the whole of Christianity by the faults of the naïve, undisciplined ones who don't yet know how to best represent their beliefs.

What I think you're finding fault with are the people who follow Christ without yet understanding. Give those people some time and they might surprise you. And I think you are also seeing those who count themselves among us and yet are crooks. You see those guys on TV all the time. We aren't all bad as some make us out to be!

Monkey wrote (in part): Really though, in my opinion worshipping a golden calf is no different to worshipping the judeo-christian god, allah, zeus, jesus etc. If you want to worship it, just go ahead and do so. --- Monkey - Good point. Apparently the idea of a God/god/whatever often comes down to what one puts in front of their face and gives their attention to. - pgd

Kevin Smith already did it; is he going to hell?

EDIT: Helps if I get the picture right.

The only new instruction from Jesus was to do the updated Sedar in his name and according to how he did it. The crucifiction was not something he instructed to focus on. The focus on the crucifiction has served more to corrupt Christianity than anything else.

Last edited by skafather84 on 19 Jul 2010, 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Christianity says: "Why would you go through the problem of worshiping a man.made image, when you can just worship a man-made god instead?".

BTW. That's exactly what catholics say about the images in their churches.


Except he didn't.

You know what ticks me off?

Aaron was Moses' brother and supposed to be running things while Moses was gone.
Yet he was the one to make the golden calf.

He was not punished at all but thousands of the Israelites were put to the sword.

If I remember correctly, Moses was up the mountain and God said "Those people are making a golden calf. I am going down there and kill the lot of them, but I will still make a great nation of you".

Then Moses said something like "Wait a minute, lord. How will it it look if word gets around that you led your people out of Egypt and then killed them all?"

And God said "Fair enough Moses. You have a point there. I tell you what. I won't kill them but in future if you want to talk to me you must go outside the camp.
Because if I go into the camp I will probably get angry and kill them all"

Then God double-crossed Moses and made him and the people wander in the desert till all the original generation were dead.

He screwed all those people big time! They were better off back in Egypt. Not to mention the thousands who were killed by the Levites.

Motto: You can't trust God. He is a psychopath.

Worshipping a department store mannequin painted with gold is far better.

Especially since she's got two golden calves plus golden thighs and other interesting golden devices.

Yes He did. Luke 22:19.

Regarding Baptism--there had been purification rites by immersion in water LONG before John the Baptist came on the scene. The only thing that makes John so special is he performed baptism in anticipation of Jesus.

After Jesus Himself was baptized, He instructed His disciples to baptize others. The disciples of John incorrectly perceived a competition brewing between themselves and Jesus' disciples. So John told them they shouldn't be following him, but Jesus anyway.

I don't recall seeing where Jesus Himself performed baptism. It's interesting to me that Jesus demanded that He be baptized, yet He didn't carry out the ritual on others. This is apparently an instruction for US to carry out in service to each other and not something God could rightfully do. I'm just guessing here, but perhaps it is a distinction between God's ability and man's ability. Man has the ability to baptize by water, which is a symbolic gesture that demonstrates the change of heart within a believer. God, on the other hand, could reasonably avoid baptism on a purely symbolic level by baptizing the heart of the believer, the "baptism of the Holy Spirit." I think God in actually doing the dunkin' would show weakness in symbolically limiting baptism to a physical act alone. The real power is in the spiritual baptism, something human beings cannot possibly do.

Now, the commandment of baptism as an ongoing practice is found in Matthew 28:19--Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

The other thing absent in the Bible is any strict outline of the baptism ritual. No special, magical words or incantations. In every baptism I've ever seen, the pastor simply reminded the congregation that our practice of baptism is symbolic of death, burial, and resurrection into a newness of life as realized by the life of Jesus. I've even heard a preacher say that the water used in baptism is just plain water, has no healing powers or magical properties, no power to save souls, and so on to emphasize the act as a SYMBOLIC act of obedience. I've come to the conclusion, as many of us have, that you aren't going to Hell for not being baptized. But if you are a follower of Christ, wouldn't you WANT to follow in obedience?

Mindless obedience is the character of the mechanical idiot. If humans are gifted with intellect it is well that they use it to examine and analyze and judge their actions. As Bertrand Russel noted, nowhere in the Bible is intelligence prized. Following orders was the common excuse for totalitarian brutality and was not accepted as legally valid.

I'll agree that nowhere in the Bible is intelligence prized. Many of the most prominent followers of God and would, by their own admission, confess they aren't all that smart.

That tells me two things: God is not concerned that we attain any certain measure of knowledge and wisdom. Doing so is not necessary in any situation, religious or not, although we know that it is a helpful and noble endeavor. Thus God can use ANYONE who acknowledges Him to be His priest or prophet. Many Christians today believe in the concept of the "priesthood of the believer," that because we all have the common experience of Christ, we are called to tell others of that experience. I wouldn't advise going out into the midst of thousands of people, pointing fingers, and condemning them all to Hell. That is God's concern, not ours. But we CAN say that "God says this" or "God says that" if we have scriptural proof. And we do.

The second thing is that God's plan of salvation is not limited to those who can claim that they are "smart enough" for it, but rather for all regardless of mental capacity.

Whatever your concept of God's intent might be in this very pragmatic world it is human intellect that has given the species the capability to survive, prosper and more or less dominate the forces that would subdue and destroy it. Without that very crucial intelligence humans would have ceased to exist long ago.