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Is this right? Fare dodger is asualted by passenger

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Robdemanc
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17 Dec 2011, 2:38 am

I think this is very questionable.

[youtube]http://youtu.be/BFY1Byc6OZM[/youtube]

Sorry if its not worked, I cannot usually do this.



snapcap
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17 Dec 2011, 3:01 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFY1Byc6OZM[/youtube]

Risks have consequences. The passenger had to know that he could potentially be thrown off, not having a ticket. By the time he was discovered to not have one, he should have just gotten off without any altercation. No point in having empathy for him.



DaBuddha
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17 Dec 2011, 3:15 am

snapcap wrote:
Risks have consequences. The passenger had to know that he could potentially be thrown off, not having a ticket. By the time he was discovered to not have one, he should have just gotten off without any altercation. No point in having empathy for him.


Assaulting a stranger in public is a much larger risk both legally and from a personal safety standpoint.



snapcap
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17 Dec 2011, 3:32 am

DaBuddha wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Risks have consequences. The passenger had to know that he could potentially be thrown off, not having a ticket. By the time he was discovered to not have one, he should have just gotten off without any altercation. No point in having empathy for him.


Assaulting a stranger in public is a much larger risk both legally and from a personal safety standpoint.


Maybe, but in this situation, who do you think the courts would side with? Was he actually hurt to the point that he needed medical attention or was it just superficial wounds you'd expect getting your butt kicked off a train?



DaBuddha
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17 Dec 2011, 3:42 am

snapcap wrote:
Maybe, but in this situation, who do you think the courts would side with? Was he actually hurt to the point that he needed medical attention or was it just superficial wounds you'd expect getting your butt kicked off a train?


Regardless of what the other guy did, or whether he suffered injury, he still assaulted him. There was no pressing necessity for him to physically intervene in the situation.



Robdemanc
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17 Dec 2011, 3:47 am

DaBuddha wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Maybe, but in this situation, who do you think the courts would side with? Was he actually hurt to the point that he needed medical attention or was it just superficial wounds you'd expect getting your butt kicked off a train?


Regardless of what the other guy did, or whether he suffered injury, he still assaulted him. There was no pressing necessity for him to physically intervene in the situation.


Yes I agree. In fact it was none of his business. Plus he was a grown man and much bigger than the kid. Assaulting a kid in other circumstances would not be tolerated. Simply because he had no ticket does not give him the right to start smacking him about. Also, I refuse to believe the train driver would not move because of a passenger without a ticket.



Robdemanc
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17 Dec 2011, 3:51 am

snapcap wrote:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFY1Byc6OZM[/youtube]

Risks have consequences. The passenger had to know that he could potentially be thrown off, not having a ticket. By the time he was discovered to not have one, he should have just gotten off without any altercation. No point in having empathy for him.


It is not crime of the century. People do it all the time and a fine is usually issued. Yeah, he should have got off, and I can imagine him being mouthy with the inspector but if it was a six foot bloke instead of a kid, I think the other passenger would not have got out of his seat.

BTW - thanks for putting the video on. How do you do it? When I try to put a youtube vid on it never works.



snapcap
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17 Dec 2011, 4:16 am

Robdemanc wrote:
BTW - thanks for putting the video on. How do you do it? When I try to put a youtube vid on it never works.


I copied the Youtube video number, which is the BFY1Byc6OZM section, and I pasted it to the end to the URL "www.youtube.com/watch?v=" to get "www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFY1Byc6OZM"



Robdemanc
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17 Dec 2011, 8:03 am

snapcap wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
BTW - thanks for putting the video on. How do you do it? When I try to put a youtube vid on it never works.


I copied the Youtube video number, which is the BFY1Byc6OZM section, and I pasted it to the end to the URL "www.youtube.com/watch?v=" to get "www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFY1Byc6OZM"


Thanks. I will remember that.



Tequila
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17 Dec 2011, 9:13 am

Robdemanc wrote:
Yes I agree. In fact it was none of his business.


It was his business as the train had stopped and this little oik was inconveniencing (at best) all the other passengers on the train too.

This "kid" (who is a fully grown man by the way) is in no way innocent either, for several reasons:

a) As far as we can tell, he is still lying about not having the correct ticket.
b) He was abusing the ticket conductor for several minutes even before the video started (at least).
c) He was inconveniencing the other passengers as well, most of whom wanted to get home. A decent sort of person would explain the situation politely and calmly or, at the very least, get off when in the wrong.
d) He tried to get back on even after he was thrown off.

I think it was mainly the fact the fare dodger was being abusive that started this off.

Either the passengers had two options - wait another ten minutes for the BTP to enter the train and do exactly the same thing as he had done - with similar results - or they could have removed him themselves.

I really haven't got much sympathy with the thief in this case.



Last edited by Tequila on 17 Dec 2011, 9:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Tequila
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17 Dec 2011, 9:14 am

Robdemanc wrote:
It is not crime of the century. People do it all the time and a fine is usually issued.


AFAIAA fines don't apply in Scotland.

Throughout the rest of the UK and in Europe though fines are a very common occurrence as well as police being around.



Robdemanc
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17 Dec 2011, 10:33 am

Tequila wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Yes I agree. In fact it was none of his business.


It was his business as the train had stopped and this little oik was inconveniencing (at best) all the other passengers on the train too.

This "kid" (who is a fully grown man by the way) is in no way innocent either, for several reasons:

a) As far as we can tell, he is still lying about not having the correct ticket.
b) He was abusing the ticket conductor for several minutes even before the video started (at least).
c) He was inconveniencing the other passengers as well, most of whom wanted to get home. A decent sort of person would explain the situation politely and calmly or, at the very least, get off when in the wrong.
d) He tried to get back on even after he was thrown off.

I think it was mainly the fact the fare dodger was being abusive that started this off.

Either the passengers had two options - wait another ten minutes for the BTP to enter the train and do exactly the same thing as he had done - with similar results - or they could have removed him themselves.

I really haven't got much sympathy with the thief in this case.


Were you on the train or something? The fact is that having an incorrect ticket is hardly cause for the train to be held up. I wonder if they announced that as the reason for the lateness of the train to the people waiting at the next station. There was no reason to inconvenience those passengers.

I don't suppose you have ever been on Manchesters metrolink, where it seems to be policy to have about 20 massive blokes (ticket inspectors) parading around in a gang and often surround ten year old kids for going a few stops without a ticket. Or in London where there are sometimes up to 10 police officers waiting with ticket inspectors at discreet overground stations checking tickets as commutors get off. Talk about intimidating the travelling public.

I think the way that train companies are run was the cause of the issue in Scotland. All that had to happen was that the young man, apparently a diatbetic feeling ill after not eating all day, could explain to police when the train arrived at the next station. What good was it going to do anyone by holding the train and demanding he get off?



Tequila
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17 Dec 2011, 10:38 am

Robdemanc wrote:
Were you on the train or something? The fact is that having an incorrect ticket is hardly cause for the train to be held up. I wonder if they announced that as the reason for the lateness of the train to the people waiting at the next station. There was no reason to inconvenience those passengers.


If you listen to the soundtrack it becomes clear that the train has been stopped for some time, some distance away from the final destination.



Robdemanc
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17 Dec 2011, 10:42 am

Tequila wrote:
Robdemanc wrote:
Were you on the train or something? The fact is that having an incorrect ticket is hardly cause for the train to be held up. I wonder if they announced that as the reason for the lateness of the train to the people waiting at the next station. There was no reason to inconvenience those passengers.


If you listen to the soundtrack it becomes clear that the train has been stopped for some time, some distance away from the final destination.


You can't tell that from watching this video.



Tequila
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17 Dec 2011, 10:46 am

Robdemanc wrote:
You can't tell that from watching this video.


"I'm stopping here, I can wait all night." - anyway, you can't hear any movement that you would usually be able to hear.



ruveyn
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17 Dec 2011, 10:55 am

Except in cases of self defense only the duly authorized police are permitted to use force.

The conductor should have verbally order the free rider off the train at the next stop. If he refused then he should call the police.

ruveyn