Do you know a religious person who ISN'T hypocrite?

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I don't. The last person I had hopes for, turns out was talking against me this whole time behind my back, falsely accusing me. If the people who are that devout don't believe in following their own gospel, why should I? They clearly have no fear of God, so what further evidence do I need to shrug all this nonsense off?

To be honest, if we REALLY examine ourselves, we are all hypocrites in one way or another. I'm not attacking you personally or anything, but take your post in particular. You're so busy pointing out how devout people are failing in their efforts by disparaging you that you don't seem to recognize what little truth there may be in their accusations. If you're being honest, now, you can't honestly paint yourself as all pure and holy, either.

And don't think I'm trying to be mean or anything, I'm just trying to point out that hypocrisy works both ways. For all I know, you probably ARE a better person than them and you're absolutely right to feel the way you do. But you understand what I'm saying, right? Consider WHY they are giving you so much trouble and try to keep an objective, level head about it.

Also, while I'm being honest, I do have to acknowledge that I understand how you feel and I've been there myself. Last year my wife was kicked out of church by a "children's minister." During this time, we also had very mysterious visits from Child Protective Services investigating accusations that we were starving our children and refusing them medical attention, not to mention the accusation that we ourselves were mentally unstable. Other circumstances surrounding what happened were just way too much of a coincidence for us to conclude that the person who was out to get us was anyone other than who it was. To make a long story short, our pastor got involved and within HOURS of our conference, everyone in our congregation who was "in the know" shut their mouths and never said a single word again. Our friends have rallied behind us throughout this nightmare. But even though we have the support of our church family, we are still very apprehensive. We are constantly on guard with what we tell people, and we've withdrawn from weekly "connection groups" (for different reasons, but not being sure of who we can trust IS one small reason). So while we've heavily isolated ourselves from our church family, we've strengthened our resolve to be diligent servants. Since I'm involved in the music ministry, I've formed a handbell duo with my wife and have turned to composing music for us to perform as a way of contributing to worship.

So yes, church people DO suck. But what is more important is finding where you DO fit in, keeping silent if your mouth gets you in trouble, and showing your brothers and sisters in Christ how you can positively and constructively contribute to the ministry. You MIGHT find you have more friends than you think you do. And if they do not accept you, merely "shake the dust off your feet" and seek an accepting congregation elsewhere.

Do you know a person in general who isn't a hypocrite? It's essentially a standard part of the human condition to be hypocritical.

I know several observant folks who are not hypocrites.

ruveyn

Oh. You mean they are openly self-righteous and cruel?

At this point in my life, I just try to attribute all 'good' things as proceeding from the grace of God.

I bring nothing to the table, so to speak...

Oh. You mean they are openly self-righteous and cruel?


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Either that or they are kind folks who do not wrong others. In any case they are straight forward. And what is self righteous? Making one's principles known and plain? Is that self righteous? I know several people who have no axe to grind, who do no harm or unkindness to others and who are by their natural inclination generous and helpful. Such people do exist.

ruveyn

Oh, believe me, I'm not perfect. The difference, in my opinion, between me and them, is I'm honest with myself where I'm going wrong, and don't jab my proverbial finger at the ones who do the same. My main flaws are my treatment of my mother, in that I live rent free and sometimes snarl when she asks me to repeat something several times because she's going deaf. Also, I don't always return calls on time, and I don't like it when people do this to me, so I try to work on that but still catch myself doing it.

I don't see myself anywhere near as hypocritical as some of the religious people I'm talking about. And further, I think I have a fairly good estimation of myself and how far I take my own hypocrisy. The reason I feel I'm a good judge of character is that I don't see this bad quality in everybody. If I did, that would be a red herring that I'm fulla ****. Also, these people that pissed me off, they just rationalized their nonsense, acting like they had no idea what they were doing when I confronted them. Oh what's that? Maybe they really didn't know? NOT FROM WHAT THEY SAID BEHIND MY BACK. I knew damn friggin' well what they were trying to do and they knew damn well too. So no, I ain't perfect. Nobody is. But I -and most people I know- don't go way the Hell overboard with their self righteous garbage that THEY can't even adhere to.

Yes. Jaylin Maddock, my high school caseworker.

Ruveyn: I know, I was just joking.

Captain: I do understand, trust me on that. Like I said, my response wasn't an attack on you personally or anything, but was really more aimed at anyone else reading. A lot of us Christians fall into a pattern of thinking we are all innocent, incapable of wrongdoing, and that's just something we have to be on guard against. In other words, we are our own worst enemies sometimes.

Trust me, I never thought I'd be party to the ugliness that goes on in churches. I've always been the person who didn't have very much to say. In "real life" I'm very shy (something I don't feel I have to be here), and when bad things happen, it reminds me of two things: 1) I'm NOT perfect myself, and 2) crap happens, and it really doesn't matter what you do to try to avoid it. So you can imagine my horror when neither I nor my wife have done anything to hurt anyone (we don't even really talk to anybody, we keep to ourselves), and within weeks of our preemie daughter coming home after a long hospital stay, we have social workers knocking on our door. Geez, if you have a problem with us, you can talk to us about it--CPS is an awful sort, and they WILL take kids away from you on nothing more than a hoax!

And, if that's not bad enough--Christians should feel that the church is a sanctuary, a safe place. So when my wife is escorted from church grounds by the "children's minister," what are we SUPPOSED to think about that?

These kinds of things do not bode well for Christians who invite the world to join them when they abuse each other like that. How are we to convert others with things like this going on? Captain, you're not alone here.

But I will say this, which I've already said in a different way: The foundations of Christianity, precisely that we are to treat each other (and others) with kindness and dignity and that our salvation is in Jesus, never change despite whatever conflicts are from person to person. So I would never use that as an excuse to discard Christ altogether. We have considered numerous times the merits of leaving the church we attend and starting over elsewhere. We just know that for us this really isn't the right time. Furthermore, as much as we seek to avoid it, we know good and well that the same conflict exists no less anywhere else we go. It just might happen to someone else at a different time. So you have to be careful about the justifications for leaving a particular place because you run the risk of finding the same thing elsewhere, even if it doesn't happen to you. Also, you'll spend your whole life running--hypocrites are everywhere, in and out of the church. But I pray you'll find a good, spiritual home where you can worship peacefully.

And finally, Christians aren't perfect--you and I can both admit that about ourselves. Even the people who abused us last year are, for all we know, still children of God and God still calls us to act accordingly. So we pray that God will continue in His work to perfect our enemies as well as us. This is part of the reason we refuse to leave. There is still work to be done.

I believe you. It's just... sigh. I'm angry. I'm so so angry right now.

At (or with) whom and for what reason?

ruveyn

Yes, a few Christians, though my mom achieves it by ignoring the many dumb parts of the bible.

I think a lot of the accusations of hypocrisy come from people honestly screwing up or not meeting someone's straw-man criteria of what they expect a christian to be like.

Whatever buddy. I "expect" them to follow their own God d**n tenants, especially when they bring them up every fifteen minutes.

Anyone who claims to be good is a hypocrite because all humans are sadistic.