The Golden Rule

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iamnotaparakeet
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30 Oct 2010, 11:32 am

Matthew 7:12 wrote:

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.

When following this rule is it more important that "what you would have them do to you" be what they would like or be what you think is best? Or something else? Discuss.

ruveyn
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30 Oct 2010, 12:24 pm

Which Golden Rule. The Christian Golden Rule: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you

OR

the Jewish Golden Rule: Do not do unto others what you do not want them to do unto you?

ruveyn

auntblabby
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30 Oct 2010, 12:43 pm

aren't they just opposite sides of the same ethical coin? one who really believes in treating others as one's own self, would do both things automatically.

leejosepho
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30 Oct 2010, 1:04 pm

Quote:

Matthew 7:12 wrote:

So in everything, do to others what you would have them do ...

... what they would like?
... what you think is best?
... something else?

Something else:

Quote:

"So in everything, do to others what you would (or 'will/wish to') have them do unto you."

I "will to" (or "wish to") be treated fairly, honestly, equally and justly (including reproof and correction) in at least some form of "brotherly love", so I essentially damn myself if I do not treat others in just that way.

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number5
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30 Oct 2010, 1:08 pm

auntblabby wrote:

aren't they just opposite sides of the same ethical coin? one who really believes in treating others as one's own self, would do both things automatically.

If you're talking about ruveyn's post, I think the difference is due to a rather unpleasant historical event :wink:

leejosepho
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30 Oct 2010, 1:35 pm

auntblabby wrote:

aren't they just opposite sides of the same ethical coin?

Yes, such as in "going the second mile" even though you would never even think of demanding even one from the other.

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auntblabby
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30 Oct 2010, 1:44 pm

number5 wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

aren't they just opposite sides of the same ethical coin? one who really believes in treating others as one's own self, would do both things automatically.

If you're talking about ruveyn's post, I think the difference is due to a rather unpleasant historical event :wink:

i know i have not walked in that man's shoes. all i can say is that i try to try always, to display both sides of the aforementioned ethical coin. i am sure he does as well.

ruveyn
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30 Oct 2010, 2:12 pm

auntblabby wrote:

aren't they just opposite sides of the same ethical coin? one who really believes in treating others as one's own self, would do both things automatically.

No. The Christian version is altruistic and redolent with self sacrifice. The Jewish version is rationally selfish.

ruveyn

iamnotaparakeet
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30 Oct 2010, 2:29 pm

ruveyn wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

aren't they just opposite sides of the same ethical coin? one who really believes in treating others as one's own self, would do both things automatically.

No. The Christian version is altruistic and redolent with self sacrifice. The Jewish version is rationally selfish.

ruveyn

Well, even within the Christian paradigm, not doing to others what you wouldn't want to have happen to yourself would be included I'd think. Since if you're doing to others what you wouldn't want to have happen to yourself then you'd also be violating the intention of the Christian version. Ideally it ought to be such that both are included together.

leejosepho
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30 Oct 2010, 2:38 pm

ruveyn wrote:

... redolent with self sacrifice ... rationally selfish.

Is there really all that much difference?!

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ruveyn
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30 Oct 2010, 11:58 pm

leejosepho wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

... redolent with self sacrifice ... rationally selfish.

Is there really all that much difference?!

Yes. A rationally selfish person works on behalf of his interest but has appropriate respect for the life and and property of others, an altruist or self-sacrificer works and suffers for the sake of others and subordinates his own interests for the sake of others.

ruveyn

skafather84
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31 Oct 2010, 12:34 am

ruveyn wrote:

auntblabby wrote:

aren't they just opposite sides of the same ethical coin? one who really believes in treating others as one's own self, would do both things automatically.

No. The Christian version is altruistic and redolent with self sacrifice. The Jewish version is rationally selfish.

ruveyn

Human sacrifices are okay in Christianity so long as you're the one nailing yourself to the cross.

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Wombat
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31 Oct 2010, 12:55 am

ruveyn wrote:

ruveyn, as usual you are spot on.
People talk about "Jewdo/Christian" values but they are quite different.

Judaism is a religion of law and logic.
Christianity is all about "heart" and weakness.

Frankly, if someone hits me in the face I am going to hit them back, not "turn the other cheek"

I might choose to give to charity but why should I take my expensive overcoat off and give it to some wino in the street?

The_Dude
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31 Oct 2010, 6:07 am

How about, "Love your neighbor as yourself" Leviticus 19:18

and these?

"What you do not want others to do to you, do not do to others" The
doctrine of the mean 13, 500bc, Confucius.

"Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others"
Isocrates, 375bc

"This is the sum of all true righteousness: deal with others as thou
wouldst thyself be dealt by" Mahabharata, 150bc, (Hindu).

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31 Oct 2010, 6:27 am

Wombat wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Excellent point. A rationally selfish person is more moral than a true altruist. Because the latter is not only near impossible, but it can be easily manipulated by the immoral to further his selfish agenda. Whereas the former will not offer the immoral the same opportunity.

auntblabby
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31 Oct 2010, 6:44 am

iron rule versus golden rule topic

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