Thoughts?

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http://www.schoolprayerinamerica.info/
Id like to know other peoples thoughs on this? I have always been fed this type of thinking/writing/belief by alot of people, and I just dont necesarrily agree with everything it says/writes.
I have to agree that morals have gone down somewhat, but I dont believe that its from removing God from the schools. I believe parenting is one of the causes for morals going down.
Many(not all) of the Founding Fathers werent Christian(as this article is trying to lead people to believe).

Most of the Founders were Deists and they denied the Trinity. Thomas Jefferson, our third president denied the Trinity. He claimed it was invented by corrupt churchmen.

ruveyn

The issue isn't morals, though, it's the fact that using prayers in school usually discriminates against people of minority faiths.

Most of our Founding Fathers were slave-owners. They also denied the right to vote to women, to Catholics, to Jews, and to anyone who did not own land.

So, if anyone wants America to return to the "Christian Values of the Founding Fathers", then we must first abolish the 11th through the 27th Amendments to the Constitution, and then define the term "Men" (as in "... all men are created equal ...") to mean "Wealthy, white, protestant males of legal age who freely own at least one acre of land".

Then this country will have returned to the legalization of slavery, the subjugation of women as second-class citizens, and the acquisition of foreign land through genocide -- all Biblical values, and all values of the Founding Fathers.

I would like to see how you arrived to that conclusion.


Best Regards,

Jake

It would take posting a re-write of a high-school assignment I did back in the early 1970s for a term paper I did at uni a few years later. Suffice it to say that all it took was a chronological study of the Constitutional Amendments and the colonial/state laws in effect in the mid-1770s, as well as a biography of each Founding Father, to see that the laws of the land gave legal rights of suffrage and property ownership only to adult males protestant property owners of European heritage. I also examined how the 13 colonies were formed from lands taken from the natives already living there -- usually at the muzzle of a flintlock, but also including smallpox-infected blankets, lynchings, forced marches, and other means of land-grabbing.

When people bring in slaves and voting rights, it's strawmen arguments.

Yes there are lots of things that needed to be improved, but there are also time tested values that don't break down.

I doubt a lot of people would want to go back to slavery and women not being allowed to vote, but I sure would love to go back to the day when people valued hard work, responsibility, when communities worked together to help each other, when people would take any kind of work they could find before charity, when people weren't to good to do manual labor.

There's plenty of bad stuff we can leave in the past, but progress hasn't been perfect.

Do you actually remember this time? Are you sure it ever existed? Because all of the bad things we've gotten rid of are well-documented.

You seem to be fantasizing about an ideal nation that never existed.

Certainly more people did manual work in the first half of the twentieth century than there are today. But that has a great deal to do with the way automation has supplanted manual labour. There were fewer people relying on social assistance--because there was no social assistance on which to rely. But this was also a time when a man (and I use the gender exclusive deliberately) could raise a family on the wages that he earned from a single full-time job. This was also a time when every worker could aspire to own his own house (again, I use the gender exclusive deliberately).

So does the fault lie with workers who are too lazy to do the jobs (that don't actually exist anymore...) or with employers who have persistently driven down wages in real terms so that a person who works full time can no longer aspire to raise a family on a single income?

You have romanticized a fictional past, that existed only in the illustrations of Norman Rockwell. Look back at what life was truly like for people of your economic level, and tell me which age you would rather live in.

Hard work, responsibility, communities working together to help each other, people taking on any kind of honest work they can find before charity, and people who aren't too good to do manual labor -- Now THOSE values I can get behind! Throw in appreciation for education and military service above mere personality, and I'm happy!

Yes! Agreed!

@Fnord

America was established on the values of freedom from religious persecution, from the Church of Gitmo Nation East. It was verified in the Deceleration of Independence and implied in the Constitution.

The Pilgrims, incredibly grateful for their new "Promise" Land went into Orthodoxy,
I agree with you that principle of Genocide and lynching is not permissible. There are many "Bad Eggs" in any religion or group, that doesn't necessarily mean that the whole religion or orthodoxy itself is "bad" Those people were trying to do what's natural to them. Even almost 200 years later, it may look like complete nonsense.

Best Regards,

Jake

Let's be clear: the Pilgrims did not leave England to escape religious persecution. They left England to escape religious pluralism. They left with the full intention of creating a puritanical, homogenous society in which they would be free to impose their religious belief and indulge in religious persecution.

The religious tolerance that is set out in the US Constitution is a product of Englightenment Liberalism, not any pilgrim heritage.

^^^ This.


^^^ And this.

Vis, you have an excellent grasp of history and its meaning.