Aspieness and delusional rationalism

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Some of us have been pre-diagnosed with childhood schizophrenia, schizotypal or schizoid personality disorder, schizoaffective disorder, or something of that nature. With a condition like asperger's, how could the professionals at one point say some of us suffer from some sort of psychotic disorder and then, years later after more research, say that we're not psychotic? What could predispose a professional to actually insinuate that we may suffer from some sort of psychosis? If anything, we're probably more neurotic than psychotic.

Or, maybe ... the psychotic notion might stem from a concept that could be called "delusional rationalism."

Most aspies are hyper-rational, so much so that it may seem to many NTs that we are a bit psychotic. We may shift topics quite a bit during conversations, or we may have odd perceptual differences regarding our own obsessions, or we may even have a kind of grandiose sense of self-importance. These sorts of things could lead some to insinuate we're psychotic, but psychosis involves a belief that the experienced thoughts are completely bizarre and irrational.

Some AS kids may be obsessed with superheroes, such as superman. Maybe they may attempt to fly and end up getting hurt or whatever, but is that really characteristic of psychosis? Even NT kids tend to mimic comic heroes or role models or whatever, but we as aspies tend to become much more absorbed. We may try to feel what we are experiencing. We tend to want a connection that simply can't exist, from a realistic point of view. If a kid sees something in a comic book and tries to act it out, sure that's not exactly appropriate or even typical, but viewing something in a book and then trying it does not characterize psychosis. Even NTs are impressionable via advertisements and television. They want what they see. They want to buy what they see being sold. Is it then that most NTs are too psychotic?

I think aspies tend to have a complex that could be called delusional rationalism. We take rationalism to its extremes, so much so that we tend to appear stubborn and even arrogant. Some people just can't debate with us, because we're so headstrong. Once we get involved with something, it can truly become a driving force in much of our lives. We may start to even identify with our own obsessions when looking at the world around us. I went to school with a kid who lived for Star Trek and comics, and he began to identify characteristics of other people based on what he saw in the comics and so forth. I have heard, on rare occasions, a few teachers tell him something like: "You do know that Star Trek is fantasy?" This kid was never diagnosed AS, and AS wasn't even around at that time, but he seemed to have lots of characteristics.

- Ray M -

What is rational to one person is irrational to another; this is true even for aspies. For example, I think it's rational to believe that the Bush Administration was, in part, behind 9/11 but irrational to believe in gods or goddesses or fate or astrology or anything like that. And a lot of people, aspies included, would disagree with me. How, then, can any of us ne sure that what we think to be rational truly is rational?

"Delusional rationalism" seems a good choice of words.

I think more materialism/realism.
I find Rationalism to be more inclined with Artists and NT's.

Maybe Delusional Reasoning.

OMG. You just described me totally.



..and there, you did it again.

Attwood described the misunderstandings being related to an aspergers syndrome person's tendancy to interpret words absolutely literally.

For example if a child was asked
"can you hear voices"
they'd answer "yes", because they can hear yours / the asker
"can you hear voices of people that aren't here"
"yes."
and it would turn out the voices they can hear are real people talking in the next room

and so it goes on.

If the analyst did not ask exactly the right question, exactly the right way they wouldn't get a useful answer.

The "hearing voices" question ... Well, every time you go in for an evaluation, they ask that. And I have always thought that it was quite ridiculous. When I was younger, I actually said 'yes' to this question, and not because of being so literal, but because a lot of people around me were constantly asking me why I acted the way I did and so forth, and I was quite severe when younger, and I just started saying I heard voices. It gave everyone a reason, and then everyone left me alone and never asked. At least, this had worked for a while. It became a problem, because it convinced a psychiatrist to place me on anti-psychotic medication, which had serious side effects.

I thought the question was ridiculous for other reasons, though, after learning about certain conditions later in life.

A true schizophrenic, someone who does hear voices, would probably not say yes to that question. Most schizophrenics tend not to think the voices are coming from within themselves (a few do, but it's not common). Most tend to hear things outside. They truly believe that people are speaking to them, regardless, so answers they would give on those evaluation questions? I can't see how these evaluators can see that as significant. It's not as cut and dry as a yes or no.

- Ray M -

I believe that with Aspies, there are two things going on.

First is the internal running dialogue Aspies have- the unique view of the world only they have. But secondly and more important is the fact that Aspies are of normal or above intelligence... Aspies have the capacity to absorb information.

Well- what do you get when you combine the ability to learn new knowledge with the ability to apply knowledge objectively to a well concieved set of pre-concieved notions? You end up with an ethical, moral, intelligent person who, with the more he learns, only makes more and more sense.

It's all about information. With enough information over enough time, one can form truly objective conclusions. With Aspies, we're all destined to end up in a tree somewhere freely dispensing knowledge to passers-by. Sure 99% of the people will call us crazy but the other 1% who realizes what we say makes sense will listen and learn.

As far as the other 99% goes, it's not until the rain doesn't stop that that looney who built an arc in the desert suddenly makes sense to them.

I think that the question here is really of introversion.