Effective Prayer

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Question: The president of Daystar Christian TV publicly admitted (November 2010) he had a seven year ongoing adulterous affair with an employee. During this period, the Reverend prayed over stacks and stacks of prayer requests on a regular basis on TV asking God to answer those requests (requests which often included so called love money gifts). Would this be called effective prayer or would God (in the sky above Jerusalem/wherever) not listen to these requests because the minister was living in sin? What does the Bible say about this? The prayers of an adulterer are effective or the prayers or an adulterer are not? If the prayers of an adulterer minister are ineffective, can those who sent in love gifts to the ministry - Daystar TV - request a refund since God wasn't listening?

Prayer is merely the Christian formality of raising demons or other assumed supernatural beings for carrying out curses or wishes. No need for pentagrams or special charms and it's a childish form of wishful thinking that seems universal to many religions. Of course it never works but it calms some people's nerves.

I'm not a big fan of most TV evangelism. I don't pay much attention to Daystar/TBN/etc. except every now and then you'll catch a tidbit of truth here and there. For instance, I enjoy Brian Houston's sermons and haven't heard anything doctrinally "off." My only criticism is that he MIGHT have a tendency towards "smiling preacher" theology, but before I say anything more I feel it's best that I learn more about his beliefs and ministry. I do know that his ministry is shadowed by scandals involving his father, the former senior pastor at Hillsong, prosperity gospel was taught AT ONE TIME, and certain ministries/charities associated with them have engaged in questionable practices and they have all suffered for it. But all that means is everyone has problems at some point, and any church that has been affected by scandal and has survived has the greater advantage in that they've learned hard lessons and have become a better organization from having to live with the consequences, correcting their behavior and doctrine along the way. New Life in Colorado has had to deal with some truly AWFUL issues with scandal and even terror. So despite the misdeeds of a few which have affected the many, it's not unheard of that the changes made by religious organizations due to scandal actual improve the situation for all involved, though the healing process always takes a lot of time.

That being said, it's always despicable when the leader of some religious organization engages in immoral behavior. I'm not defending the daystar guy by any means. But it does show that we're all only human, even the "best of us," and we have our failings. I don't know about THAT guy, but church staff have the unfortunate position of living in glass houses, even musicians such as myself. As much as I hate to think about it, even if someone from church saw me having a margarita at my favorite Mexican restaurant (and they were drinking more than I), just that alone could potentially cost me my job if enough people got to talking. Other pastors on staff have been told by our senior pastor is that if anyone is going to drink, they better not do it within the tri-state area. My immediate supervisor (the worship leader) has also informed me of why certain people were not given my job even though they were better qualified and, further, if there are ANY problems between myself and my wife, ESPECIALLY if infidelity is involved, I'm to let him know immediately. They don't mess around with this kind of stuff.

I know of a pastor who once actually fired a youth minister because he was downloading porn on a church computer.

When things like that come up, it's always tragic. But if I understand correctly, the daystar guy was facing blackmail (embezzlement) over what happened. By being up front about it, I think he did the best thing he could do given the circumstances.

As to effective prayer: I believe that God hears and responds in some way to all prayers. He doesn't ignore you for being human. He forgives those who fail.

It also depends on what you mean by effective prayer. I think if you ask God for the right things in the right spirit, i.e. your prayers are not for your own personal gain but for God's purpose in your life on earth to be fulfilled, God will always grant you what you ask for. I've wanted, for instance, a certain piece of musical equipment that I knew would greatly enhance how I make music. I never really EXPECTED this to happen, but I've ended up doing almost exclusively music intended for church. For the time being, nothing else is working for me musically and this has been very successful for me in my own creative life. So as long as it works, I'm not going to question it but just go with the flow.

I may eventually go back to doing secular work, God-willing, but it does seem that if something comes as a gift from God it MUST be used for His purpose. I'm just thoroughly enjoying the work and the results of it to really be concerned with changing directions in the future.

Prayer's effectiveness is not diminished by a sinner's wrongdoing. But at the same time, if a sinner suffers the consequences of his actions, I don't think God will just make it all go away, no matter how fervent your prayer is that He will. I don't see any way out of "glass house syndrome," and I do think that people in such a high position of power and authority have a greater responsibility to keep themselves clean and out of trouble. I don't know what's going to happen to him, but it's tragic either way.

On a side note: I don't know about all that "praying over written prayers" or "prayer requests." I do believe in the power of intercessory prayer. But what some of these televangelists do strikes me as being a bit more "for show" and I question the sincerity of it. "Prayer requests" are published at my church so that we may pray for specific needs of others. Sunday School classes, Bible study, choir rehearsals also take time out to discuss the status of those in the community who are confronted with illness and death. If that's what's going on with a TV evangelist, I see nothing wrong with it and can think of no reason why God would listen to prayers any less. But I also think that someone who is THAT public with what they do is a little iffy in the sincerity department. I don't know the guy, so I can't really make that judgment call; but that's just what I think in general on the matter.

Belief in demons and miracles is clear evidence of psychosis.

The decision on the Donatists applies here. The character of the officiating clergy or the praying lay does not validate or invalidate sacrament or prayer - good thing, or every human Christian would be in the soup sooner or later.

God is not going to hear a good man's prayers more than a bad one's. The one closer to the mind of Christ will likely steer prayer more in accordance with the divine will is all.

The cheat here is not that people got lousy prayers - the prayer - knows what we need before we do- would get the same attention if the guy never touched them. The cheat is they were tricked into thinking they don't have direct access.

One of the most amusing things about faith is its obvious contradictions. God is accorded omniscience and an omniscient being needs no one whispering in its ear as to what is gong on.

Why are you on threads like this?
You obviously have no interest in Christianity except to insult and ridicle people who do, how would you feel if you posted about your special interest and people mocked you for it?
What do you hope to gain except by hurting people?
If you want to become interested fair enough, you will need more of a Biblical knowledge though before you will be in a position to come out with such statements as the above, the answer to which is that mankind rejected God and came under the jurisdiction of the Devil, thats why the worlds in a mess.
Though God does know everything, he doesnt go around fixing the mess we put ourselves in unless we sincerely ask him.

As for the original post, my views are that Gods not some Genie in a bottle that some TV evangelist can summon to perform miracles therby making his show popular and maybe making him a lot of money, if you where God would you act in that way?
Jesus is the high priest, it is him people should ask God for help through, not some fella on the tellevision.

Do you feel horrible that people point out the obvious to you? I am trying to help you think. Does it make you uncomfortable to think? I am delighted that people mock me if it makes me reconsider my thoughts. I am very interested in Christianity as I find it quite strange. I am very sorry that your God is so helpless in the face of the Devil's efforts and I wonder that the Devil can be so powerful. When I see something very bad happening and I can help, I do so without being asked.. I wonder why God has to be asked.

Your being rude again, ("does it make you uncomfortable to think?"), this doesnt demonstrate you trying to help.

As for God being helpless against the Devil, if you are really very interested in Christianity, and want to understand, read the book of Job where you will learn that as there are other issues at stake, God allows the Devil to do what he does, not because he has no choice.

Also read the book of Revelation, Chapter 12 for instance.

You are, of course referring to the contest between God and Satan where God takes this decent faithful believer, Job, and does frightful things to him to try to make him lose his faith and poor Job was just too loyal to revolt. It's like a guy taking a dog who loves him and kicks the dog and beats him and tortures him in every way possible to see if he could make the dog bite and the dog, being of superior morality than his owner, refuses to be provoked and behaves well. Since God is omniscient and the Devil knows God is omniscient God could merely have told the Devil that Job would behave well and the Devil would have to believe Him. But no. God acts like the most vicious sadistic son-of-a-bitch to prove how loyal Job was and all He proved was that Job was morally superior to God. Is that the story? Makes God out to be a rather disgusting deity and I'm surprised it was in the Bible.

God wouldn't honour those prayers not because the minister was living in sin, but because the minister was a money grubbing media whore. His "living in sin" was just one more in his catalogue of hypocritical behaviours. Any "minister" who encourages "love gifts" is a hypocritical, cynical charlatan, and only an idiot would fall for that.

Given that the same God set Man up to Fall, flooded the whole world, made someone think they had to kill their own son, turned someone into a pillar of salt for looking at a city that He destroyed and eventually let his own son get killed in an excruciating way, I'm not surprised the Book of Job is in there.

Job is in fact very peculiar. Linguistically rather old, and culturally we are not dealing with the Hebrews - somebody near, maybe, but lifefstyle closer to the Bedouin.

Thematically and stylistically it is an isolate - not straight history even at the level of Ruth, Poetic, but very different frrom Canaanite [especially Ugaritic] or Akkadian poetry. Theologically striking, if not unique.

Till the right people have access to a time machine I think it will remain a puzzle while the world limps.

Job is indeed quite interesting. It is one of my favorite books in the Bible.

Satan in this story can be thought of as the prosecuting attorney in the court of heaven. At the end, God's answers to Job's questions seem meaningless but Job is apparently satisfied. Some have interpreted this to mean as God teaching us that the universe IS meaningless: glorious nonsense.

If you are willing to concede that God is the damndest bastard conceivable then God in a meaningless universe makes sense. Otherwise it's either a meaningful universe with God or a meaningless one without Him. They don't mix.