I find it a little disconcerting, don't you?

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To wit [too whit too whoo] that almost the only Religion threads that fly are those that get tied to politics. And straight philosophy is less than common.

Is this a misapprehension based on a short term fluctuation?

On another board I frequent there is quite a bit of lively non-political discussion going.

What kind of straight philosophy do you want? Surely not angels on pins, is it?

I know you're directing this at me

http://www.carlysimon.com/music/Lyrics/ ... _Vain.html

Dear me, no. Of course, yes, you are one part of this nutritious phenomenon. But analysis of your style leads me to hypothesize that you know very well you are not alone in this. And, in my opinion, not the most offensive. You will excuse me if I indicate, dispassionately, that I put you among the welterweights.

No, I am an observer of patterns, and if you read what I said you will see that I point to a pattern [which you can confirm or deny through your own observations] such that threads started here with a purely religious content, which do not have political issues attached to them, die out very quickly. If I were to start a thread on Dharma and Karma [not likely to, but you never know], I predict a max life of 3 posts, but if pgd initiated "Why do Christians refuse to swear on the Bible" it might stretch 6 pages.

Personally, I never liked the song.

Of course not. It is of course strictly personal taste. Although my wife can go that route, my whole life I have been hoping if I leave politics alone politics will leave me alone. I have some [rather eccentric] views, some idealism, a lot of pessimism some derived from life experience. Like when was the last time we were GLAD we elected a president, not just glad the media told us who they decided should win so we could go to bed?

Philosophy - it's like poetry, most poetries and most philosophies are signifying sound and fury to my mind structure, I would get into a philosophical discussion about to the extent I would with a political - "surely you don't mean that" here, a "you are ignoring the Middle Persian tractate CUR DEUS HOMO" there. I would scan, dive into the occasional topic. Nothing big.

But there are piles of religious topics [even if you totally exclude Christianity] that would be fun to discuss. Consider the early Semitic, Central American, and IndoEuropean pantheons - are they different enough to preclude a common origin? Do the similarities arise from a shared source or do these patterns result from the way our brains work? Or again, should rituals of birth, puberty, marriage and death be viewed as naturally part of religion, or are they something else on which in many cases a religious veneer is imposed?

But on a typical day, over half the threads are explicitly political, politics comes into most of the religious - and while for MasterPedant this is all jam and Sand does not care as long as the idiot flies play on his windowsill, for me it gets hohum.

I doubt things could be any other way since such discussion ultimately relates to the matter of sovereignty.

What's the difference between philosophy and politics?

I'd consider both under the same BS category.

There is a truth there, a sad and largely onesided truth.

If an organization arises to DO religion - which experience shows it inevitably will - it attracts the rule-people, and if it attains any status in society it attracts the power people, pretty soon you have the Borgias. Which rightly breeds resentment.

Then there is the Green Monkey. I was once rebuked for being at a party without a drink in my hand. I had had all the soda I wanted, I was not thirsty, but NOT carrying a glass - even if I was not drinking from it - made me different and bad.

So sitting here in my livingroom, talking to as few people as possible, impacting almost no one, and spending time with God - is a political act in the eyes of the many.

The things I would happily discuss, nearly all have no political edges, and as for sovereignty, I try to do most of what my wife asks, I try to obey the law of the land and I want to impose on others almost as much as I want them to impose on me - which is NOT.

But yes, being a Green Monkey IS politics. Nothing I ever chose, though.

Id like to check out these other sites you go to.

Its hard to seperate religion from politics. Atleast living religions. You can discuss Greek mythology all day without impinging on politics but you may not garner much interest either.
Its hard for me to imagine a post about living religion that would not have political implications ( or wouldnt have politcal implication projected into to it by the public).
I suppose you could make post inviting people to discuss consubstantiation vs transsubstantiation- or some other point of theology- but even the religous would find that sort of thing to be a yawner.

Well, it is nothing new for me - any one else ever experience it? - to have questions that are vitally interesting to me labelled bo-o-o-r-ri-ring. I heard THAT one before my teens.

Though early in my Wrong Planet visiting I actually encountered someone else who is turned on by the structure of verbal systems.

And there MIGHT be someone here who was interested in my reasons for doubting Basque as a true linguistic isolate. I have never seen enough of Ainu to know what to think.

But - theists or other interested people here, is this true?

Is the ONLY possible "interesting" discussion about religion the eternal and pointless and quite uninteresting Religion is Stoopid - No it is NOT, varied by YOUR religion is stoopid / corrupt - No it is not?

There are about half a dozen minds I come here to meet, and several personalities I would walk a mile to avoid. If I have nothing of possible interest to contribute, why walk through gras where Sand slithers?

FYI:Id be seriously interested to hear your ideas about Basque- that it might actually be related to some other languages- and not be an isolate.


On religious/spritual topics: There have been threads that couldve been interesting-like the one about whether religions differ in how aspie-friendly they might be- but because the OP mentioned Islam it degenerated into an exchange of bigotry and ignorance about Islam becasue some folks (not you) jusrt see red when they see the word "Islam".

So I guess with religion its either too boring, or too hot button, no in between.

Umm... Philologos, you surely aren't so different from the average person that you don't recognize why these issues don't get discussed as much, do you?

Most people, even more people on this forum, do not know enough about these abstractions to have a great conversation. I'd admit that I'd have to do a good bit of research to even start on the topic of pantheons, and I probably have more knowledge and interest in religions than a lot of people do.

The same kind of holds for the psychology and sociology of religious experience. These are topics where even beginning to discuss them requires some degree of large background knowledge.

Now, PPR, given that a lot of people do not have this background knowledge, is going to tend itself towards subjects that are accessible to all, even if only a few can argue well in these areas.

Even further, PPR is going to tend towards topics that just excite people due to the relationship to their lives it has. You like linguistics, you like massive puzzles, most people don't like massive puzzles. Most people really just like the broad ideas that while still abstract, they can structure their identities around.


Well... ok, yes.

I mean, you could attempt to start a thread that is less political, but I am going to be explicit, most people are not interested unless it impacts their identities in a meaningful manner. (We might actually be able to talk somewhat about that. The topic is still rather political though, but, it could get traction.)

I think it all comes down to tribe.

A struggle between tribes is a political struggle. When my tribe rejects the values of your tribe, the potential for conflict is born. When my tribe has the power to impose our will on the members of your tribe, conflict is borne out.

Unfortunately, religion is one of the ways that we identify our tribe and distinguish it from others. The greater the degree to which religion imposes itself on the cultural life of the tribe, the greater the political struggle that can result.

Now, certainly not all religious discussion will ipso facto descend into tribalism--but the potential is there. Just as it is there in discussion of sexual orientation, race, ethnicity or any of the other myriad ways that we distinguish between "them" and "us."

Philologos, it is a good point. Religious debate turns political. I am guilty in this at times. I like to throw questions to religious people that create a reaction. I find myself being a propagandist if only to get a reaction out of my subjects and purposely try to get a reaction out of them. I will tell born again Christians that they are Zoroastrians and they would offend Moses, if only to piss them off. I am being simplistic if only to get them to consider that Moses would view them as idolatrous polytheists. That ends up as political debate, such them saying, "America is a Christian nation and we should not allow non-Christians into America.". Politics.
I like your debate idea on how did ancient Semitic, Central American, Aryan-Indo Euro myths form. By the way, do you think that the deity El is where the modern western God originate.?
A debate on Nihilism could be productive.

Religion has nothing to do with philosophy, religion is composed of drug induced political statements mixed with faries and unicorns while telling people what they can and can not do and to name all of their children Jesus and Mohamed.

Philosophy is about questions. While I absolutely don't trust Wikipedia for social-political issues (and this definitely extends to philosophy and most things I still read on Wikipedia) look up philosophy on Wiki and start with the branches at the top just under the list of contents in the horizontal-middle of the page (can't link until I've made five posts).

I actually talk a lot about philosophy, guess I'll start a thread actually...

I'd like to hear as well. There's nothing quite so satisfying as curling up with a cup of coffee and a good linguistic mystery.



That one gave a bit more impetus to some thoughts that have been rattling around for me since I started seriously reading about Asperger's, and participating here: on the place for people on the spectrum within the liturgical Christian traditions - Catholicism, Orthodoxy, some high-church Protestant branches. Nothing settled enough to lay out, and that thread turned way too nasty to bother with -but there is plenty in the topic to consider.