Will animal rights ever be established?

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13 Jan 2011, 2:17 pm

In the past we've abolished slavery and created international human rights, will animals one day be protected by law on par with humans? Will people look back in disgust and horror at our factory farms and slaughterhouses?

leejosepho
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13 Jan 2011, 2:31 pm

Subotai wrote:

In the past we've abolished slavery and created international human rights ...

... and yet slavery and infringements continue on.

Subotai wrote:

will animals one day be protected by law on par with humans?

What about carrots and radishes ripped from the ground?

Subotai wrote:

Will people look back in disgust and horror at our factory farms and slaughterhouses?

Hopefully, at least for some, yet we will still have chickens at least for their eggs.

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murphycop
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13 Jan 2011, 2:39 pm

:roll:

So vegetables are on par with animals? For people who care about animals, like myself. If an animal is mistreated, its like seeing your own child get the same treatment. Humans have enough rights, maybe not in certain parts of the world. But it isn't really our business rolling in there, blowing them up, taking their oil, and making them think the same way as us. All chickens should be free range.

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Subotai
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13 Jan 2011, 2:42 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Subotai wrote:

In the past we've abolished slavery and created international human rights ...

... and yet slavery and infringements continue on.

Subotai wrote:

will animals one day be protected by law on par with humans?

What about carrots and radishes ripped from the ground?

Subotai wrote:

Will people look back in disgust and horror at our factory farms and slaughterhouses?

Hopefully, at least for some, yet we will still have chickens at least for their eggs.

I'm not claiming that slavery and other human rights infringements don't happen, but they are not accepted

Carrots and radishes don't have a central nervous system, they don't feel, pain, emotions, they don't become psychologically traumatized.

Victimizing weaker species is the hypocrisy of our times.

leejosepho
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13 Jan 2011, 2:44 pm

murphycop wrote:

So vegetables are on par with animals?

Not in my own estimation, but living things are living things, are they not?

murphycop wrote:

All chickens should be free range.

Agreed, but where shall we find sufficient range for all chickens?

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PanoramaIsland
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13 Jan 2011, 2:47 pm

leejosepho wrote:

What about carrots and radishes ripped from the ground?

What is it about discourse on animal rights and treatment of animals that makes so many people resort to near-gibberish non-arguments?

The point of treating animals fairy is not that they are alive, but rather that the are substantially capable of suffering. Thus, when a radish is ripped from the ground, it is simply deprived of its food, and slowly dies; it cannot feel or think, and does not notice or care. There may be other reasons not to harvest and eat a certain plant - in order to help keep an ecosystem in balance, for example - but a plant is not really capable of suffering. When we kill a pig, for example, we are cutting short the life of an intelligent being very much capable of suffering, and we are more than likely causing it pain in the process. Further, the lives of most animals that we eat are lived in absolutely brutal conditions on factory farms - contained in cages so small they cannot move, covered in their own feces, never allowed outside their entire lives, deprived of normal socialization, sometimes bred to be unable to walk even if they had room to do so. We torture animals in laboratory experiments without giving it a second thought, simply because they are not human; the common argument in favor of these experiments is that the could be used to cure cancer or AIDS, etc., but most of them are not; most of them are simply testing cosmetics or shampoos.

Read Animal Liberation by Peter Singer if you have further interest in the topic; he lays out the arguments in a clearer fashion than I'm capable of.

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PanoramaIsland
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13 Jan 2011, 2:50 pm

leejosepho wrote:

murphycop wrote:

All chickens should be free range.

Agreed, but where shall we find sufficient range for all chickens?

We can find sufficient range for all chickens by not forcibly breeding so damned many of them, and not eating them so much; the same goes for cows, pigs and so on.

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Subotai
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13 Jan 2011, 2:53 pm

leejosepho wrote:

Agreed, but where shall we find sufficient range for all chickens?

Perhaps eggs aren't an absolute necessity? Or perhaps they could become an expensive luxury.

I'm sure plantation owners didn't want to give up all their free labor either.

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13 Jan 2011, 2:54 pm

PanoramaIsland wrote:

What is it about discourse on animal rights and treatment of animals that makes so many people resort to near-gibberish non-arguments?

The simple fact of people needing to eat ... and any kind of discussion here will help raise awareness of related and troubling issues!

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PanoramaIsland
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13 Jan 2011, 2:56 pm

leejosepho wrote:

PanoramaIsland wrote:

What is it about discourse on animal rights and treatment of animals that makes so many people resort to near-gibberish non-arguments?

The simple fact of people needing to eat ... and any kind of discussion here will help raise awareness of related and troubling issues!

Yes, yes, but people can just as well eat veggies and get their protein from lentils and cashews as they can be omnivores! :lol:

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13 Jan 2011, 3:03 pm

I sure would oppose your animal rights agenda. My diet consists of just about everything you want to do away with. Most fruits and vegetables disagree with me. I guess there is bread without eggs and rice or soy milk, but that vegan stuff is crap. Also, hunting is required to balance wildlife populations. Hunting may look cruel but it's really a nicer way to die than anything they would experience in the wild otherwise.

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leejosepho
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13 Jan 2011, 3:04 pm

PanoramaIsland wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

PanoramaIsland wrote:

What is it about discourse on animal rights and treatment of animals that makes so many people resort to near-gibberish non-arguments?

The simple fact of people needing to eat ... and any kind of discussion here will help raise awareness of related and troubling issues!

Yes, yes, but people can just as well eat veggies and get their protein from lentils and cashews ...

Sure, but then what shall we do with all the animals that would otherwise be eaten ... and of course, we would then also have to try to stop any of them from eating each other, would we not?

Giving and guaranteeing an equal "right to life" to all living creatures is just never going to work.

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murphycop
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13 Jan 2011, 3:06 pm

leejosepho wrote:

murphycop wrote:

So vegetables are on par with animals?

Not in my own estimation, but living things are living things, are they not?

murphycop wrote:

All chickens should be free range.

Agreed, but where shall we find sufficient range for all chickens?

Yeah I guess so, as are we. And well, if there isn't enough room for free range chickens, the country is probably overcrowded. I don't think its a space issue though, its just people don't care.

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skafather84
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13 Jan 2011, 3:06 pm

Subotai wrote:

will animals one day be protected by law on par with humans?

Some already are if you look at the endangered species act.

Others aren't and hopefully never will be.

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Subotai
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13 Jan 2011, 3:12 pm

leejosepho wrote:

PanoramaIsland wrote:

leejosepho wrote:

PanoramaIsland wrote:

What is it about discourse on animal rights and treatment of animals that makes so many people resort to near-gibberish non-arguments?

The simple fact of people needing to eat ... and any kind of discussion here will help raise awareness of related and troubling issues!

Yes, yes, but people can just as well eat veggies and get their protein from lentils and cashews ...

Obviously I'm not suggesting policing wild animals. But we are intelligent reasoning creatures who are capable of thinking objectively.
There is a major human overpopulation right now, and it's going to get worse.. what should be done about that? Should we cull our own herd or only the herds of "lesser" beings?

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13 Jan 2011, 3:12 pm

John_Browning wrote:

Fox hunting isn't necessary. If they need to be culled, then can be shot, not tortured. Sounds like you were spoilt as a child and wasn't encouraged to eat your fruit and veg

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