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Sundy
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30 May 2006, 1:50 pm

Why are we here?

Why do we believe in heaven and/or hell?

I believe that there is no God in the good and evil sense of the word. To me, god is not an authoritative figure and is not watching over us. There is no promised land in heaven or pit of eternal despair in hell. After we die, we die. It’s over. We blink out. We have served our purpose on this planet and have been used up until the very end of our lives.

This is it folks. This is your life. There is nothing afterwards.

This is not as bleak as it sounds. There is nothing to be afraid of when we die because there is nothing there. We should not be concerned about what happens to us afterwards. There is no eternal damnation or eternal salvation. Why should there be? We already have already lived our lives to the end on earth. The end of our days should be a relief to us. We loose the good and evil aspects of life and become neutralized and cycled back in to the earth.

During our lives, we create energy. That energy is used to keep life on the planet. We live on this earth not as an individual obeying a deity’s rules in order to get a ticket to a nice place when we die, but as an individual working as part of the whole to protect the earth and the life that exists on our planet. Every living thing has a part to play in the grand scheme of things. We each have our roles. Some of us play our parts better than others, and some of us were dealt crappy hands to begin with. But we are here for everything. We are here to enrich the life around us, be it fellow humans, animals, plants, or insects. We have a direct affect on life as a whole. Some of these effects are larger than others. Sometimes, our direct effect, our reason for being, is manifested by the smallest things…including swerving to avoid hitting someone’s pet cat in the road or not killing a harmless spider so it can continue to manage the insect population. We can have many different reasons for being, even if we do not realize that is what they are. We may never realize the full impact of our lives and our actions. What we do affects something somewhere. For example, a major direct effect to life from me was when I was shot and was at a very good military hospital for a week. During this week, I was able to show many young military technicians what a gunshot wound looks like and how to treat it before they were sent off to practice these skills in Iraq. I was used as a learning tool to save other people’s lives. This does not mean that I’m in favor of the war; it just means that I was able to play a small part in maintaining life as a whole. I have contributed. We all have contributed in one way or another. Good or bad, we’re responsible.

Why I’ve come to believe this way is due to the egocentric notions of life and the afterlife of most religions. What makes me so special and hand-picked by a deity that I can expect to go to paradise for eternity? Why can’t I just be part of the whole? The religious way compels me to think only of myself and where I’m going to end up. Screw the rest of the world; we’re only talking about me here. I want my tough life to be all worthwhile and since I believed in this greater power, I should be allowed a break! This way of thinking is selfish to me. Why should we, as individuals, put our trust in a higher power that has no direct effect in our lives? Together, WE ARE GOD. We are the life force. We keep this ship sailing. We make decisions. We have free will. We make an impact. As individuals we are nothing. Collectively, we are a deity. God is everywhere and in everything. We’re looking too hard for the answers and they are right in front of our noses. It is so simple. Life is truth. This is our existence. Make the best of it.

I’m not insinuating that we should all be philanthropists and actively working towards the greater good. I believe that we should protect our earth and environment in order to continue all life. Worshiping something that exists only in the minds of individuals doesn’t make sense to me. We should live in the here and now.

I'm sure that this is not a new idea. Feedback is welcome.

-Ann-



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30 May 2006, 3:00 pm

Sundy wrote:
I'm sure that this is not a new idea. Feedback is welcome.

-Ann-


This sounds a lot like Hinduism.


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Sundy
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30 May 2006, 3:44 pm

Does it really? Perhaps I should look into this a little more.

Thanks!

-Ann-



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30 May 2006, 5:06 pm

Scrapheap wrote:
This sounds a lot like Hinduism.


It also sounds like some variations of Zorasterism, which can be very similar to Hinduism.



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30 May 2006, 10:25 pm

Sundy wrote:

Together, WE ARE GOD. We are the life force. We keep this ship sailing. We make decisions. We have free will. We make an impact. As individuals we are nothing. Collectively, we are a deity. God is everywhere and in everything.



I agree. I think you should specifically read about pantheism though, as there are many different types, of which Hiduism is a branch. I like the way you put it though. I liked some of what you said about not being bleak about the non-existence of an afterlife. We should be striving to make this world a better place, not sacrificing it for a spot at the head of the line in the next one. The more you value the next life, the more you have to devalue this one, there's no way around that.

Although I would have to say that for me, death does not scare me, the only thing that scares me is dying before doing the things that I want to do. THAT absolutely terrifies me, unfortunately, the only way to get rid of this fear is to do the things I want to do (which may not be possible), or to find God (which I know is impossible for me). Oh well,....sigh*

Also, if you don't mind sharing (I understand if you don't), how and where did you get shot?!?



Sundy
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31 May 2006, 10:45 am

I don’t mind you asking.

I got shot about 4 and a half years ago…I was 21. I posted something about this a little while ago…take a look:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/asperger.htm ... ht=#218348

I’ve never heard of Zorasterism or pantheism. I’ll look into those.

jonathan79 wrote:
We should be striving to make this world a better place, not sacrificing it for a spot at the head of the line in the next one. The more you value the next life, the more you have to devalue this one, there's no way around that.

I like the way you put that. That’s kind of what I was trying to say. This is why I think the ideas of heaven and hell can be detremential to us as a whole.

jonathan79 wrote:
Although I would have to say that for me, death does not scare me, the only thing that scares me is dying before doing the things that I want to do. THAT absolutely terrifies me, unfortunately, the only way to get rid of this fear is to do the things I want to do (which may not be possible), or to find God (which I know is impossible for me). Oh well,....sigh*

Death isn't something to be afraid of, but I want to make sure that I’ve done everything I can to live. This is the only chance I have to do it. What things do you want to do in this life?

Why do you think finding God is impossible for you?



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31 May 2006, 12:02 pm

Just have to read Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 10, for all people die in this world just like that.


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31 May 2006, 2:43 pm

Scrapheap wrote:
Sundy wrote:
I'm sure that this is not a new idea. Feedback is welcome.

-Ann-


This sounds a lot like Hinduism.


it does, other than the general belief in reincarnation in hinduism.



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31 May 2006, 2:47 pm

kevv729 wrote:
Just have to read Ecclesiastes 9:5 and 10, for all people die in this world just like that.


After reading that, the author just seems to be beiong nihlistic.


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31 May 2006, 3:00 pm

Sundy wrote:
I’ve never heard of Zorasterism or pantheism.


Take care when researching Zoroastrianism (my bad, I gravely misspelled it). Like I implied, there are many different versions. It historically pre-dates Judaism, Christianity, Islam and is thought to have influenced these as well as many polytheistic religions, including vedic hinduism.

Wikipedia has a really good article on it (albeit poorly arranged), if you wish to start there.



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02 Jun 2006, 10:27 am

You might be interested in a little Buddhism.

I always like their idea that "emptiness is form, form is emptiness."

The Buddhists sort of see this world more as a trap, a cycle that we are stuck in, when we learn to see beyond ourselves, then we will not come back here anymore. That is called nirvana.

And nirvana orignally came from a pali word that means "fire unbound."
This is related to the way they saw fire, but the idea is that we are bound to this world and these bodies, through our passion, or craving, when we let go of that craving, then the burning stops, and we return to our essence, which is emptiness.

People often see emptiness as something bleak and negative, but if you ever get to a point when your mind is nearly empty, then you understand how beautiful and peaceful if is.

A more positive way to think of it is that an empty vessel has maximum potential.


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20 Jun 2006, 3:03 pm

Sundy wrote:
Why are we here?

Why do we believe in heaven and/or hell?

I believe that there is no God in the good and evil sense of the word. To me, god is not an authoritative figure and is not watching over us. There is no promised land in heaven or pit of eternal despair in hell. After we die, we die. It’s over. We blink out. We have served our purpose on this planet and have been used up until the very end of our lives.

This is it folks. This is your life. There is nothing afterwards.

This is not as bleak as it sounds. There is nothing to be afraid of when we die because there is nothing there. We should not be concerned about what happens to us afterwards. There is no eternal damnation or eternal salvation. Why should there be? We already have already lived our lives to the end on earth. The end of our days should be a relief to us. We loose the good and evil aspects of life and become neutralized and cycled back in to the earth.

During our lives, we create energy. That energy is used to keep life on the planet. We live on this earth not as an individual obeying a deity’s rules in order to get a ticket to a nice place when we die, but as an individual working as part of the whole to protect the earth and the life that exists on our planet. Every living thing has a part to play in the grand scheme of things. We each have our roles. Some of us play our parts better than others, and some of us were dealt crappy hands to begin with. But we are here for everything. We are here to enrich the life around us, be it fellow humans, animals, plants, or insects. We have a direct affect on life as a whole. Some of these effects are larger than others. Sometimes, our direct effect, our reason for being, is manifested by the smallest things…including swerving to avoid hitting someone’s pet cat in the road or not killing a harmless spider so it can continue to manage the insect population. We can have many different reasons for being, even if we do not realize that is what they are. We may never realize the full impact of our lives and our actions. What we do affects something somewhere. For example, a major direct effect to life from me was when I was shot and was at a very good military hospital for a week. During this week, I was able to show many young military technicians what a gunshot wound looks like and how to treat it before they were sent off to practice these skills in Iraq. I was used as a learning tool to save other people’s lives. This does not mean that I’m in favor of the war; it just means that I was able to play a small part in maintaining life as a whole. I have contributed. We all have contributed in one way or another. Good or bad, we’re responsible.

Why I’ve come to believe this way is due to the egocentric notions of life and the afterlife of most religions. What makes me so special and hand-picked by a deity that I can expect to go to paradise for eternity? Why can’t I just be part of the whole? The religious way compels me to think only of myself and where I’m going to end up. Screw the rest of the world; we’re only talking about me here. I want my tough life to be all worthwhile and since I believed in this greater power, I should be allowed a break! This way of thinking is selfish to me. Why should we, as individuals, put our trust in a higher power that has no direct effect in our lives? Together, WE ARE GOD. We are the life force. We keep this ship sailing. We make decisions. We have free will. We make an impact. As individuals we are nothing. Collectively, we are a deity. God is everywhere and in everything. We’re looking too hard for the answers and they are right in front of our noses. It is so simple. Life is truth. This is our existence. Make the best of it.

I’m not insinuating that we should all be philanthropists and actively working towards the greater good. I believe that we should protect our earth and environment in order to continue all life. Worshiping something that exists only in the minds of individuals doesn’t make sense to me. We should live in the here and now.

I'm sure that this is not a new idea. Feedback is welcome.

-Ann-


This has to be the most sensible "religious"" statement made on this board. Why can't christians view their religion in a similar light??


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Mordy
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20 Jun 2006, 3:13 pm

Quote:
This has to be the most sensible "religious"" statement made on this board. Why can't christians view their religion in a similar light??


Because many people cuold not live their lives happily without the believing theres something better than their current crappy life of poverty or some other misfortune.

My mother put it this way "I dont ever want to examine anything too closely", in other words she's happy living in a kind of place between reality and fantasy.



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20 Jun 2006, 4:08 pm

I define good and evil like this:

building : good
destroying: evil

I base this on lego's not the bible.
Legoism



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20 Jun 2006, 7:11 pm

Sundy wrote:
Why are we here?


There is no particular reason why we are here, and no particular purpose for us.

Billions of years ago, amino acids combined in a chemical reaction to form replicating RNA (simply because they happened to be present together and the conditions happened to be right), and then DNA, and then very simple cells, and then multi-cellular organisms, and then via an very slow process of evolution, eventually we arrived at the humans of today.

I am sure I missed some details there or said it inaccurately (perhaps someone with more scientific knowledge about the topic could correct me), but that is the general idea.



Sundy
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21 Jun 2006, 12:06 pm

emp wrote:
Sundy wrote:
Why are we here?


There is no particular reason why we are here, and no particular purpose for us.

Billions of years ago, amino acids combined in a chemical reaction to form replicating RNA (simply because they happened to be present together and the conditions happened to be right), and then DNA, and then very simple cells, and then multi-cellular organisms, and then via an very slow process of evolution, eventually we arrived at the humans of today.

I am sure I missed some details there or said it inaccurately (perhaps someone with more scientific knowledge about the topic could correct me), but that is the general idea.


Well, yeah emp. We are the end result of some major chemical reactions. I have to agree with you there. :wink: However, it seems as PART of our chemical makeup, many have a desire to justify their existence on this planet. I see it not as a justification of existence, but as a defense to maintain life. Life is here and life seems to be made to try to keep it that way...no matter what the price. No matter how small, life will defend itself.