Most "Conservatives" aren't that conservative

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Master_Pedant
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03 Apr 2011, 11:05 pm

Le Drutman wrote:

Among the many memes floating around in the wake of the 2010 election is that America has taken a rightward turn, and conservative pundits seem re-energized in calling America a center-right nation. After all, a plurality of American voters (42 percent) now call themselves “conservative” — as compared to just 35 percent who say they are “moderate” and 20 percent who say they are “liberal.” Two years ago, moderates and conservatives both were at 37 percent.

But new research suggests that pundits ought to be cautious of overinterpreting the conservative label: It doesn’t always mean what they think it means: Only a quarter of self-identified “conservatives” may actually be true conservatives on the issues — less than the 30 percent of whom are not conservative at all, but simply like the label.

The reason why so few “conservatives” turn out to be solid right-wingers is that the word “conservative” has different meanings for different people, according to political scientists Christopher Ellis of Bucknell and James A. Stimson of the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill, who describe their findings in a new working paper, “Pathways to Ideology in American Politics: The Operational-Symbolic ‘Paradox’ Revisited”

According to their research, some people genuinely know what it means to be a conservative in the current political debate and indeed express matching preferences across all issues. But these “constrained conservatives” (as Ellis and Stimson call them) account for only 26 percent of all self-identified conservatives.

More common are the “moral conservatives” (34 percent), who think of themselves as conservative in terms of their own personal values, be they social or religious. And they are indeed right-leaning on social, cultural and religious issues. But they also like government spending on a variety of programs and generally approve of government interventions in the marketplace, hardly making them true conservatives.

And still others, “conflicted conservatives” (30 percent), are not conservative at all on the issues. But they like identifying themselves as conservatives. To them, it somehow sounds better. “They like the word,” explained Ellis. Or at least, they like it better then their other choices in the traditional self-identification questionnaire: moderate and liberal.

Finally, a smaller group of self-identified “conservatives” (10 percent) could be classified as libertarian — conservative on economic issues, liberal on social issues.

http://www.miller-mccune.com/politics/a ... nk-26845/#

So, next time somebody tells you that implementing single-payer healthcare or repealling Taft-Hartley is "politically impossible" and "too liberal to go through", think of who it's *too liberal* for. It may just be that the Political/Corporate Elite and not the masses can't stand it.

And it's also all the more evidence that Lawrence O'Donnell is a political moron.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMM9D9ge8uY[/youtube]

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Last edited by Master_Pedant on 03 Apr 2011, 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jamieboy
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03 Apr 2011, 11:14 pm

We need some form of direct democracy where people and not politicians decide on the issues of the day. Otherwise you end up with the powerful manipulating the system so you have 2 options "coke or pepsi". People consistently come across (in opinion polling) to the Left of both parties on some issues and to the Right of them on others. Just look at Britain and the Libyan question. 50 percent of the UK public were opposed to a no fly zone and this opinion was "represented" in vote by 13 out of 650 MP's. A scandal. When you get onto to Afghanistan also, the majority of the UK and US public want troops home whereas amongst the political class there is an almost uniform consensus in favour of it.

Jacoby
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03 Apr 2011, 11:30 pm

I'd say this is the same for liberals or moderates as well. Probably 70%(and I think I'm being generous here) of people in this country are by some extent apolitical; not understanding or at the very least not having strong feelings either way on most issues. They're far more concerned about their own lives and what immediately effects them. 'Not that I blame them but that's why you have elections won by the candidates looks or who you'd like to have a beer with.(or whoever their favorite talking head on TV tells them to vote for or more likely against) The problem with these people is that quite a few them actually pretty strongly identify with one of the two parties be it because of tradition or whatever else reason. Most people in this country couldn't tell Keynesian from a Kenyan.

Master_Pedant
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03 Apr 2011, 11:32 pm

Jacoby wrote:

I bet most economists couldn't tell a Neo-Keynesian from a New Kenyesian from a Post-Keynesian, from a "Keynes Keynesian".

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John_Browning
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04 Apr 2011, 1:02 am

It sounds to me like the majority of people aren't happy with what's going on to the left of [American] center, but aren't ready for another Bush administration.

jamieboy wrote:

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.
-Winston Churchill

As much as I'd like to have a direct say in what goes on in congress, elective representation still acts as a safeguard; the vast majority of people are not informed or educated enough to be competent to make wiser decisions that the Jackass crew we have in office now. Basically, politicians should keep it simple for their constituents and ask questions like "do you guys want tougher or looser abortion laws? Yes or no"; "do you guys want stricter or weaker gun control laws? Yes or no"; "do you guys want better healthcare coverage? Yes or no. If you say yes you guys will also need to figure out how to pay for it". Additionally, it would be a fairly full time job keeping up with all the issues. Do you have to or vote on economic issues? You need to meet with an advisor for that. Is there an issue regarding scientific policy? You need to spend a lot of time doing your homework and maybe meet with people for that. Last of all, there is the issue of classified information. There is information that congress sometimes has to talk about behind closed doors (and I don't like that either but it has to be done) regarding threats to the country, foreign intelligence, and secret military or intelligence projects. As much as this information is considered important by the pubic, disclosing it would destroy it's usefulness. If our enemies figured out we learned something sensitive, make changes to conceal their activities, and if our intelligence came from a person they would torture and shoot the person. I am not suggesting that most of us have masters. They are still elected officials and they still have to hear us out or lose the next election. Yeah, there are a few who can do whatever they feel like and still get re-elected due to their party affiliation, but if we get too many of those in office there are still ways to remove them.

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John_Browning
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04 Apr 2011, 1:21 am

Jacoby wrote:

Most people in this country couldn't tell Keynesian from a Kenyan.

That's easy.....

Keynesian.....

Kenyan.

ruveyn
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04 Apr 2011, 9:22 am

The so-called Conservatives in the U.S. have completely bought into the Statist agenda which was the major characteristic of the Roosevelt New Deal. In short, they have betrayed their principles almost in the entirety. They have sold their birthright for a political stew.

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skafather84
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04 Apr 2011, 10:00 am

Master_Pedant wrote:

And it's also all the more evidence that Lawrence O'Donnell is a political moron.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMM9D9ge8uY[/youtube]

Lawrence O'Donnell is evidence of a neocon conspiracy to misrepresent and de-legitimize any real socialist movement within the society. He even calls himself "the extreme left", which is the rhetoric of the extreme right that is more and more pushing the relative localized center to the right of the political spectrum.

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cdfox7
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04 Apr 2011, 11:10 am

The UK Conservative party need to understand the etymology of the word. (Latin: conservare, "to preserve")
The Torys have a lack of environmental conservatism has our ConDem Government where quite happy to flog off woodlands
before u-tuning the idea. You have to see the irony of this as the Conservative party has a tree for its logo.

Anyway the political spectrum in the UK died back in 1979. As its been liberal ideologies all the way to the present day.
Thatcherism = Neo-liberalism, Bairism = Neo-Thatcherism, Brownism = Socal liberalism, & the ConDem's = Neo-Bairism.

Master_Pedant
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04 Apr 2011, 11:18 am

Good ol`Maggie.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NC4oNyjKNKs[/youtube]

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cdfox7
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04 Apr 2011, 11:46 am

Master_Pedant history will repeat its self of Maggie's legacy for Cameron's legacy.
(4 more years before I can vote the ConDem's out) A stockbroker's son as prime minister,
what a joke its the stockbrokers who put us this mess & the poor pay to fix it.

Heres a fact for you theres 14 Tory millionaires on the current government's front bench.

ruveyn
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04 Apr 2011, 4:41 pm

John_Browning wrote:

Kenyan.
:

Cut it out. Obama is no more a Kenyan than I am.

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Jacoby
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04 Apr 2011, 4:47 pm

well, to be fair, he is half Kenyan.

ruveyn
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04 Apr 2011, 4:49 pm

Jacoby wrote:

well, to be fair, he is half Kenyan.

No. He is all Chicagoan. His soul and essence is the gangster politics of the Chicago Machine. He is the spiritual son of (Old) Mayor Daley and Saul Ailinsky. If he had to he would throw Michelle under the bus.

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skafather84
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04 Apr 2011, 4:53 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

well, to be fair, he is half Kenyan.

You really are a fool if you see Daley and Ailinsky in him rather than the cynical realpolitik philosophy of Kissinger.

ruveyn
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04 Apr 2011, 8:49 pm

skafather84 wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Jacoby wrote:

well, to be fair, he is half Kenyan.

You really are a fool if you see Daley and Ailinsky in him rather than the cynical realpolitik philosophy of Kissinger.

Chicago style is how he got to where he is. And yes, there is a bit of Kissenger b.s. in Obama's rationalizations. But Henry could not be elected as dog-catcher or latrine inspector any place in the world. To get to be like Kissenger you have have to be appointed or elected.

ruveyn

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