Education Department Changes Burden of Proof for colleges

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ikorack
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02 May 2011, 8:10 am

http://www.openmarket.org/2011/04/11/education-department-changes-burden-of-proof-in-sexual-harassment-cases-under-title-ix/

Frankly I'm a bit disturbed by this, I was hoping to involve myself in on campus activities(at least a little bit anyways) but I think I will avoid campus as much as I can if this goes unchallenged.

Also the title may seem a bit misleading as it's only sexual harassment claims being given a lower standard of proof but the title has a character limit and I don't feel like creating a better title.



zer0netgain
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02 May 2011, 10:17 am

So, it's all the more so if a woman said it happened, you're guilty?



ikorack
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02 May 2011, 11:07 am

zer0netgain wrote:
So, it's all the more so if a woman said it happened, you're guilty?


Yes.



leejosepho
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02 May 2011, 11:18 am

ikorack wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
So, it's all the more so if a woman said it happened, you're guilty?

Yes.

Quote:
“Title IX does not make a school responsible for the actions of harassing students, but rather for its own discrimination in failing to remedy it once the school has notice.” (62 FR 12034 (1997)). So to violate Title IX, an institution’s own actions must be proven culpable under a “preponderance” standard — not the mere occurrence of harassment.
(excerpted from article in OP)

It sounds to me like schools are now trying to "cover their butts" across-the-board in regard to allegation/s from any or all students.


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Philologos
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02 May 2011, 12:17 pm

What is new?

It was years ago [details need not concern us] I was told by the dean, "if a person feels she - possibly he/she? - has been harassed - then you harassed her and are culpable." Proof? We don't need no stinking proof so long there is an allegation.



leejosepho
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02 May 2011, 1:41 pm

Philologos wrote:
What is new?

It was years ago [details need not concern us] I was told by the dean, "if a person feels she - possibly he/she? - has been harassed - then you harassed her and are culpable." Proof? We don't need no stinking proof so long there is an allegation.

I once had the same thing said to me in a situation where I had only said "I love you, Barb!" to a supervisor at a place where I worked ... and she quite-well knew my words meant nothing any more, less or different than her occasionally calling any one of us subordinates "Girlfriend". But at that particular time, I had been challenging the new "requirement" that everybody use the new hand-scan timeclock ...

... and in the end, they gave me a pass on both matters!


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Vigilans
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02 May 2011, 1:50 pm

wtf is this? Mexico? Guilty until proven innocent? Guilty if there is ~51% chance that it could have happened? This is going to ruin a lot of innocent, shy/awkward people's lives


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Philologos
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02 May 2011, 3:29 pm

Whatever you do do NOT stare in anyone's direction avoiding eye contact.



Vigilans
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02 May 2011, 3:32 pm

Philologos wrote:
Whatever you do do NOT stare in anyone's direction avoiding eye contact.


LOL I just thought of the irony of 'avoiding eye contact' on a forum for Aspergians


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leejosepho
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02 May 2011, 3:32 pm

Vigilans wrote:
wtf is this? Mexico? Guilty until proven innocent? Guilty if there is ~51% chance that it could have happened? This is going to ruin a lot of innocent, shy/awkward people's lives

Do you recall (if you ever saw) all the hubb-bubb here on WP a while back about "Guilty as perceived"?

Anytime anyone is in any way feeling uncomfortable, misunderstood or "offended" or whatever, even the real-world community now also seems to "feel" some kind of harm has been done!


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Philologos
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02 May 2011, 11:53 pm

Well, not quite ANYONE.

YOU try lodging a complaint because you feel - as I have often felt - that you have been slighted harassed abuse offended profiled stereotyped cheated mistreated - Call for the Everly Brothers - jilted misled discriminated against OR not had your special needs addressed.

You first have to belong to one of the scheduled categories.



Bethie
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03 May 2011, 12:24 am

Interesting this gets news and controversy, versus virtual media and societal silence for years regarding the preceding rape epidemic on college campuses, and college institutions adopting a modus operandi of "eh" in response.


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03 May 2011, 12:31 am

It is a little sexist to say that the system changed to "Woman says you did it". It appears it will work both ways, so if a male student makes the claim it should work as well. It should also work when the student and Professor have the same sex.

I don't think that avoiding eye contact and extra curricular work is going to help you. If some one out there wants you down, the lack of presumption of innocence will allow him to take you down. So, try continuing your life as usual not pissing people off and try to get this silly idea fixed.


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Philologos
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03 May 2011, 12:34 am

"silly idea"? Sounds like hate speech to me.



ikorack
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03 May 2011, 4:56 am

Bethie wrote:
Interesting this gets news and controversy, versus virtual media and societal silence for years regarding the preceding rape epidemic on college campuses, and college institutions adopting a modus operandi of "eh" in response.


What rape epidemic? Please provide sources. I would prefer studies for this one not news articles.