Why have philosophy & religion w/ politics?

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I don't know if out-in-the-open is the best place to address this, but why is there politics included in the philosophy and religion forum? To me, it would make more sense to have it in the "News & Current Events" forum. My religion is a big part of my life, but I never want to discuss it here since politics is one of my big stress triggers. Every time I read a topic that has something to do with "this side's wrong" or "America is doomed," it strikes the wrong chord with me when it comes to discussions of faith and philosophical thought.

And all that's before bringing up any mention of the stance on the separation of Church and State.

An odd thing, that makes it harder for me to understand this, is that you seem to be complaining about a problem specific to you, rather than a general problem. (Not saying anything is wrong with that or making a judgment by pointing out the fact) The issue is just that a personal stress trigger is difficult for interpersonal decisions.

Note: You could *really* be trying to get at a larger point. I just have a difficulty seeing it: "My religion is a big part of my life, but I never want to discuss it here since politics is one of my big stress triggers. Every time I read a topic that has something to do with "this side's wrong" or "America is doomed," it strikes the wrong chord with me" (Just pointing out that your reasons are expressed as personal. Which makes it hard to understand if you have a point that isn't just about your personal psychology. I hope this doesn't seem anal.)

a forum for religious aspies would be nice. Religion isn't always to be debated between theists and atheists, sometimes people would prefer to talk about religious matter with other religious people without someone equating God to a pink unicorn under your bed.

This I can understand, but I'd probably push for PPR to remain PPR, and just add a forum, if this is possible.

After all, I can't see removing religious issues from PPR. I also don't think philosophy is really a bed-buddy with the spiritual/personal elements of religion. People often think so, but... a lot of philosophy is really argumentation.

we are here so we don't annoy the others.

Because they're all based on arbitrary rules of behavior and thought.

That is only your opinion, and not a valid assessment of what should "make sense" to the rest of us.

Religion is the politics of faith - discuss one, and you've discussed the other.

Religion is all about defining what is right and what is wrong, and many religious texts feature at least one doomsday scenario, so what is wrong with discussing these same matters in a philosophical or political context?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" does not prescribe the separation of Church and State, only that Congress shall give no preferential or detrimental treatment to any one religion. In fact, the First Amendment to the Constitution does not even prohibit Congress from making the practice of all religions illegal.

CORRECTION (June 3, 2011 @ 0708): That last sentence should read "In fact, the First Amendment to the Constitution even prohibits Congress from making the practice of all religions illegal - a day that can not come too soon."

I don't know what I was thinking when I made the original post ... maybe it was just too much wishful thinking on my part.

Last edited by Fnord on 03 Jun 2011, 9:09 am, edited 2 times in total.

A superficial observer would say that religion is grouped with politics because SOME feel dissing religion is an important aspect of their politics.

A DIFFERENT superficial observer would say that religion is grouped with politics because SOME feel that political activism is an important part of their religion.

A cynical observer might conclude they are slapped together because a forum actually discussing religion would be a lot less fun for those on the sidelines.

I do not find politics a stressor - I just find most political discussions a deadly bore or a frustration. Natheless, you are not as alone as you might think in wishing the political side would walk quietly away.

As to the philosophy - I don't know the history, but it is really not very strongly represented.

This cynical observer thinks that watching people accuse each other of heresy would be even more fun than watching the "pink unicorn" debates.

PPR was created in large part because the News forum was being filled with political flame wars. Over here such debates are safely segregated from the rest of WP. JakobVirgil is correct: these discussions are in PPR so that they will not occur elsewhere.


Right, and this subforum is probably not the place for the sort of religious discussion you're looking for. This is mostly a debate forum. If you start a thread about religion, you will have a flurry of posts denouncing your religion and your God. There has often been talk of establishing a new forum for peaceful religious discussion, but for whatever reason the powers that be have never acted on such proposals. You could attempt posting someplace like Member's Only, Haven, or In-Depth Adult Life. I cannot guarantee you will find a receptive audience in any of those places, but you are not as likely to be flamed.


Um... when you quote a basic legal principle, try not to contradict it in the same breath. Congress could not "make the practice of all religions illegal" because "Congress shall make no law... prohibiting the free exercise [of religion]."

This was more along the lines of what I was trying to say. When some of the other things I said failed to register with most others, that was what I meant by the subject of politics flustering me and I apologize for my incoherence due to that.

I feel enough like a minority being an Aspie. But by being a religious Aspie, I really feel like I'm the last man on earth sometimes.

It is all too true that the "you ain't no Christian without you been sanctified" and the "only Theravada is valid" types would come out in greater numbers. But I cannot but think that the Highminded could work with that more readily than with a forum flooded with "Does Jesus condemn polyester" and "Saudi Arabia is in violation of the 1st Amendment" posters.

i dont see any downsides to creating a dedicated theology forum, i can see how ppr could prevent many theological posters from posting valid questions.

You are absolutely right - I don't know where mind mind was when I posted that. The original post is now corrected.

Congress can not ban religion entirely, and "Free exercise" is often cited as the reason why churches are not taxed.

So let's go after the churches for civil rights violations, in that many mainstream religious institutions discriminate against the GLBT crowd when it comes to hiring their leadership.

All three categories inform the others. One is mostly impotent without the other two.

Not alone - not even if you are feeling like the last old-school pattern-seeking language-focussed Christian Aspie raised to be polite and tolerant.

Back in my sci fi days this [I'm surprised I found a reference - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specialist ... t_story%29 ] was one of several that struck into my thought. Contrary to a lot of my basic psychology - I grew up in a who needs THEM family and being marginalized tended to think that way. But experience[s] and working my thinking deeper in the context of Christianity and enneagrammatic studies really reinforce the point.

The problem, of course, not far from the story's surface is that today's social structures devalue collaboration and crossfertilization, emphasizing dismissive specialization and the Green Monkey syndrome.

As PRACTICED here, there is relatively little mutual informing.