Norway

Post Reply New Topic

You know how there was that shooting in Norway (duh right)? I actually don't feel any anger towards Breivik - I just feel really really sad for him. In a way I feel even sadder for him than I do for his victims' families - at least his victim's families grief and loss will be recognized, and some day they will be able to move on with their lives. I know that's taboo to say because they are innocent but I really feel it's just sad for everybody. The shooter though, just like Jared Loughner, is obviously bat-shit insane and suffering from delusions of grandeur. As someone who suffers from mental illness, it saddens me so much to know that someone's psychological problems could become so bad they would actually go and harm other people. I feel bad for Breivik because even though he probably doesn't care, I find it sad that everyone hates him and he will probably die alone, never get any flowers on his grave, and very likely will end up the victim of vigilantism.

I feel like Breivik was a seriously troubled person who was probably never given much help, because people don't treat mental illness seriously the way they treat cancer.

But do you know why Norway really saddens me? Because it shows that even in a utopia, there is darkness hidden. It saddens me that two different cultures, in this case, European and Muslim, can't get along, that the political left and right hate each other as well as the west and Muslims, and that ultimately this act wouldn't have occurred without that deep gulf of hate and mistrust that divides people in this era.

I feel angry at society because the intolerance, stubbornness and hatred that exists is many people's hearts is exactly what fuels idiots like Breivik to go out and shoot people. I don't feel angry at the shooter he is obviously insane and not truly responsible for his actions, I feel angry at people who refuse to love and compromise.

I think the people who are calling for Norway to execute Breivik should look into their hearts and realize the reason Breivik killed those people is because our society is so filled with hate and intolerance, and really hating the shooter is denying the fact that in a way we are all responsible for what happened in Norway.

Utter nonsense. Think of all those people in Norway who did NOT go out and shoot at their countrymen.

Brevik thought his thoughts and chose his choices and that makes him responsible for his own actions.

ruveyn

People are not islands.

Nor are they robots.

ruveyn

Ach - how long have I been bothered by that line. No, we are not in this sardine tin civilization isolates - would we could be. But each of us is inside the armor of his own head, we are independent, we are responible for our choices.

Even one ant-unit in a lynch mob is responsible for the choice to go through with it.

I'm not saying a demon possessed Breivik or a person moved his hand and pulled the trigger for him, I'm just saying that without the hostility that is now brewing in Europe due to immigration, it never would have happened. In a small way, anyone who has ever felt the relevant political hatred is partly responsible for the Utoya massacre.

Maybe he wouldn't have killed all those people over immigration, but an angry social misfits like the shooter very possibly would have found some other reason.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

you can't prove he's insane.

he's a wealthy man who could've contributed something positive to his community.

why should he care whether or not someone brings some sh***y flowers to his grave?

what a crappy thread, don't know why I even bother.

How can someone NOT be insane if they shoot dozens of kids? Do you really believe some people are just 'plain evil'? What does that even mean anyways?

Just because someone is successful in business or has a lot of money doesn't mean they are truly functional psychologically.

I think the idea that someone has never felt love, that is incredibly tragic. Even moreso than someone dying is.

So a christian extremist commits a massacure and everyone tries to claim he was 'insane' sorry but the guy knew what he was doing and is disgusting for doing it.

The same could be said for Hitler, if there was not all that anti-semetic propaganda maybe he would not have done what he did...

He probably wouldn't have. Most likely, he would probably just have been an eccentric and little known Viennese artist. You can't just blame Hitler for the Holocaust, the blame lies with millions of Europeans. Hitler was just administrating what millions of people wanted but didn't have the guts to do themselves.

Yes that is true, but in neither case you cannot claim this guy in Norway or Hitler are not at all to blame...they could have chosen better paths but did not. So yes they are guilty of the crimes they commited.

And from the sound of it this guy killed a bunch of kids to prove muslims were a plauge of some sort on Norway, how does killing a bunch of people make them look bad? it actually makes anyone who thinks the way he does look bad.

Oh I don't mean you can't blame them at all, I'm just saying we shouldn't hate them because they were just doing what millions of people created the energy for to happen. Instead of spending our energy hating them, we should be more compassionate and look into our own beliefs. Putting Hitler or Breivik to death wouldn't solve anything, imo all it would do is absolve ourselves of the little hatreds we hold in our heart, except it wouldn't really do that, it would just make us feel better.

And I agree all acts of violence and terrorism are counter-productive and really only help the opposing side in the end.

I just don't see evil as a thing that originates from human beings, I see it as a sickness that spreads from one person to others. In this case the evil originated in the discord between European and Middle eastern peoples, spread to Breivik and then spread to those poor people he shot. I think rather than saying "I hate Breivik and want him to die, but feel sorry for the victims" we should feel sorry for everyone affected by evil.

I think evil does originate from us, as we all have very flawed natures. And when evil comes from the outside, we cooperate with it like collaborators. Again, human nature is just so flawed.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Last edited by Kraichgauer on 30 Jul 2011, 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

According to "La Presse"(daily french journal here in Quebec) of Friday 29th, there was an article about him that said that he was pretty insane. Considered himself a "Crusader Templar" on a mission to fight the islamisation of Europe, the low fertility rates, and mostly the "nordic" race's. o.O

Apparently, in his manifesto (which doubled as a diary), he even proposed a slew of measures that would have taken away most women's rights.

If i recall correctly (iirc), he even called most of his female friends "prostitutes" as some point.

He also made two fake companies in order to get credit to buy his explosives. Rent a farm to fabricate them, played video games, including one that apparently trained him in shooting combat. The owner told him at some point that she'd come visit, upon which he even contemplated the option to kill her if she found out about his stuff. Thankfully for her (somewhat), the visit came the next day, or the one after, which gave him time to hide his stuff.