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Master_Pedant
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29 Jul 2011, 2:19 pm

The debt ceiling will be raised, probably mere hours before the deadline. The package the Republicans agree to will probably include deep cuts to various social programs geared towards low-income earners, cuts to social security and medicare, and a few tax increases largely born by the middle class (they'll be few tax increases for the wealthy).


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xenon13
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29 Jul 2011, 4:11 pm

Obama should mint two trillion dollar coins and deposit them in an account at the Fed and pay the bills that way. And for those claiming that this would be inflationary, well, the Fed in recent years loaned 16 trillion to banks according to a recent audit at extremely low interest rates, thus expanding the money supply.



ruveyn
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29 Jul 2011, 4:50 pm

xenon13 wrote:
Obama should mint two trillion dollar coins and deposit them in an account at the Fed and pay the bills that way. And for those claiming that this would be inflationary, well, the Fed in recent years loaned 16 trillion to banks according to a recent audit at extremely low interest rates, thus expanding the money supply.


That would require an act of congress and the house of representatives (mostly Republican) will have none of it.

Presidents cannot mint money on their own initiative.

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xenon13
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29 Jul 2011, 4:54 pm

No it doesn't. The Treasury has unlimited power to mint coins. They'd mint two platinum 1 trillion dollar coins. The Economist ran an article praising this plan.



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29 Jul 2011, 5:05 pm

Boehner is running out the clock. He knows he'll need Democrats in the House to pass anything. He just wants 1 minute on the clock when he finally turns to them. Then he'll say, "we have no time to put in anything for you". I'm sure they'll try to get SS and medicare cuts into the Reid bill, but the Senate can play the same "out of time" card.

Obama has several options if nothing passes, including paying our debts but doing a government shutdown to ramp up pressure.



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29 Jul 2011, 8:55 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
The debt ceiling will be raised, probably mere hours before the deadline. The package the Republicans agree to will probably include deep cuts to various social programs geared towards low-income earners, cuts to social security and medicare, and a few tax increases largely born by the middle class (they'll be few tax increases for the wealthy).

Your prediction is almost, but not quite, correct. Along with the deep spending cuts, the Republicans will also extract cuts in corporate tax rates and a decrease in the top marginal tax rate- they may also get the "tax holiday" for corporations to repatriate profits from overseas tax havens. Then they might eliminate some tax loopholes, though they will go mainly for deductions like child deduction, home mortgage deduction, etc, which in effect is a tax rate on the middle class, but it won't look like it on paper. It is unlikely that they will agree to anything that looks like a tax increase.


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29 Jul 2011, 8:58 pm

Orwell wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
The debt ceiling will be raised, probably mere hours before the deadline. The package the Republicans agree to will probably include deep cuts to various social programs geared towards low-income earners, cuts to social security and medicare, and a few tax increases largely born by the middle class (they'll be few tax increases for the wealthy).

Your prediction is almost, but not quite, correct. Along with the deep spending cuts, the Republicans will also extract cuts in corporate tax rates and a decrease in the top marginal tax rate- they may also get the "tax holiday" for corporations to repatriate profits from overseas tax havens. Then they might eliminate some tax loopholes, though they will go mainly for deductions like child deduction, home mortgage deduction, etc, which in effect is a tax rate on the middle class, but it won't look like it on paper. It is unlikely that they will agree to anything that looks like a tax increase.
And after doing all of that, they will exploit Obama raising the debt ceiling and they not being able to do anything about it during the elections almost as much as NeoConCare.


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30 Jul 2011, 9:11 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Master_Pedant wrote:
The debt ceiling will be raised, probably mere hours before the deadline. The package the Republicans agree to will probably include deep cuts to various social programs geared towards low-income earners, cuts to social security and medicare, and a few tax increases largely born by the middle class (they'll be few tax increases for the wealthy).

Your prediction is almost, but not quite, correct. Along with the deep spending cuts, the Republicans will also extract cuts in corporate tax rates and a decrease in the top marginal tax rate- they may also get the "tax holiday" for corporations to repatriate profits from overseas tax havens. Then they might eliminate some tax loopholes, though they will go mainly for deductions like child deduction, home mortgage deduction, etc, which in effect is a tax rate on the middle class, but it won't look like it on paper. It is unlikely that they will agree to anything that looks like a tax increase.
And after doing all of that, they will exploit Obama raising the debt ceiling and they not being able to do anything about it during the elections almost as much as NeoConCare.


And we'll be right back at square one next year, only this time with an even larger budget gap.



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30 Jul 2011, 9:25 am

Unfortunately, I agree with everyone else. Something will be passed at the last minute, it will heavily favor the Republican position, and Obama will say there was nothing he could do about it. It's a game of "good cop, bad cop" - they're really all on the same side, and it's not the peoples' side.



visagrunt
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30 Jul 2011, 2:13 pm

A veto and a government shut down might work for Obama. (And, come to that for GOP Republicans).

Polling suggests most outrage is directed at Congress, and politically, Obama has very little to lose in vetoing legislation that does not provide him with two budget cycles worth of borrowing, and a commitment to revenue increases.

Meanwhile, a government shutdown, and disruption to medicare and social security could start to dampen seniors' ardour for the Tea Party. A steady stream of older voters in support of GOP candidates in Republican primaries could be a significant win against the Tea Party.

I am no longer quite so sure of an 11th hour deal.


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30 Jul 2011, 3:55 pm

I am confident that the politicians will reach a deal before 8/2. They understand that the repercussions for defaulting would be worse that the 2008 financial crisis. They also understand that voters will not re-elect them if they allow the economy to crash. The primary objective of President Obama and all the people in Congress (both Republican and Democrat) is to be re-elected. Therefore, they will reach an agreement so they can have a chance of remaining Representatives/Senators/President.

This agreement will absolutely include an increase to the debt ceiling. If this doesn't occur, the US will not be able to pay the debts that it already owes. There will not be any major cuts to Social Security or Medicare because these cuts would anger the elderly. Nevertheless this issue should be addressed before the Baby Boomers take all of the money from Medicare and Social Security in the near future



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30 Jul 2011, 6:34 pm

visagrunt wrote:
A veto and a government shut down might work for Obama. (And, come to that for GOP Republicans).

Polling suggests most outrage is directed at Congress, and politically, Obama has very little to lose in vetoing legislation that does not provide him with two budget cycles worth of borrowing, and a commitment to revenue increases.

Meanwhile, a government shutdown, and disruption to medicare and social security could start to dampen seniors' ardour for the Tea Party. A steady stream of older voters in support of GOP candidates in Republican primaries could be a significant win against the Tea Party.

I am no longer quite so sure of an 11th hour deal.

No, a deal will be made. Obama is far too weak to attempt anything like that. Besides, we really do need to raise the debt ceiling. The US cannot afford to default on its debt obligations, or to have our credit rating downgraded.


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donnie_darko
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30 Jul 2011, 6:36 pm

Debt Ceiling Cat is watching Bernanke masturbate.



ruveyn
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30 Jul 2011, 7:48 pm

Orwell wrote:
No, a deal will be made. Obama is far too weak to attempt anything like that. Besides, we really do need to raise the debt ceiling. The US cannot afford to default on its debt obligations, or to have our credit rating downgraded.


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First Law of the Hole: Stop shoveling
Second Law of the Hole: Put the shovel down
Third Law of the Hole: Climb out
Fourth Law of the Hole: Destroy all shovels, forthwith.

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30 Jul 2011, 8:23 pm

*Insert sinkhole* :D


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minervx
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30 Jul 2011, 9:11 pm

i think congress will come up with a quick fix sometime this week, and then in 4 months this debate will resurface.

this is just a foreshadow.