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DarthMetaKnight
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06 Aug 2011, 4:57 pm

When Obama was running for president a lot of people looked at one of his posters and noticed striking similarities between the poster and an old poster of Lenin.

http://andrightlyso.com/2008/07/24/obama-lenin-gaffe/

Immediately the insults went flying. "Obama is a Marxist!" "Obama is a Leninist!" I don't know if Obama has actually called himself a Marxist but if Obama does call himself a Marxist then Karl Marx is rolling in his grave.

Karl Marx wanted the proletariat to rebel, overthrow the government and put a new government in place that would one day "wither away". Lenin made his own version of Marxism called Marxist-Leninism. In Marxist-Leninism there is a totalitarian vanguard party of intellectuals who are supposedly there to teach the proletarians how to behave properly. What happened was the vanguard party did not let themselves or the government "wither away".

In the first half of the 20th century was a philosopher called Leo Strauss. Leo Strauss dreamed that one day America would be ruled by an elite of intellectuals who would preserve national unity. I'm not sure if Strauss read Lenin but he might have.

By the time Bush came into power the Republican Party had been taken over by Straussians. That's how they managed to pass the Patriot Act despite the Fourth Ammendment.

Now Barack Obama refuses to disagree with the Repblicans on anything except a few minor things like abortion and immigration. He isn't a Marxist but he is arguably a Leninist.


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zer0netgain
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06 Aug 2011, 9:22 pm

Obama is a Marxist. Quite the radical back in college. Was "educated" that the best way to spurn revolution was to do it from within the system. Then he mellowed his tone.

He announced his candidacy for president in the home of prominent Marxists.

All the evidence is there....few were willing to expose it as to criticize Obama is to be labeled a racist.



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06 Aug 2011, 9:29 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
All the evidence is there....few were willing to expose it as to criticize Obama is to be labeled a racist.


Why bother calling him a Marxist? The main problem is that he's a neocon.


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06 Aug 2011, 9:53 pm

No, he's a bleeding-heart liberal in a conservative suit.



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06 Aug 2011, 9:55 pm

Apparently, he sucks at Marxism nearly as badly as he sucks at liberalism. He's more of a hole in the air than any other identifiable ideology, or perhaps a funhouse mirror that shows the viewer whatever they want to see, be it friend or foe. I don't think anyone's really willing to claim him at the moment, at least without any qualifiers. I mean he's technically a Democrat, though if he were to be described to a completely ignorant party solely by what he's done in office, I'm not sure they could identify him as such.


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06 Aug 2011, 10:15 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
Obama is a Marxist. Quite the radical back in college. Was "educated" that the best way to spurn revolution was to do it from within the system. Then he mellowed his tone.

He announced his candidacy for president in the home of prominent Marxists.

All the evidence is there....few were willing to expose it as to criticize Obama is to be labeled a racist.


A marxist? A liberal? These labels serve no purpose to develop an understanding about someone, it's just a name.

What people are doing when they attach labels is they are trying to evoke some irrational response, people dismiss other people based entirely on their label. It serves no useful purpose.



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06 Aug 2011, 10:18 pm

Then maybe he's a badly-shaved Bigfoot clone ... ?

:lol:



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06 Aug 2011, 10:58 pm

Fnord wrote:
Then maybe he's a badly-shaved Bigfoot clone ... ?

:lol:
Yes, that and more. He's The One Batman-killing Keynyan Marxist Terrorist-Sympathising Antichrist Savior - (I think that's all of them)



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06 Aug 2011, 11:30 pm

Fnord wrote:
No, he's a bleeding-heart liberal in a conservative suit.


Prove it.

I say he talks the talk but does not walk the walk.



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07 Aug 2011, 12:46 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No, he's a bleeding-heart liberal in a conservative suit.


Prove it.

I say he talks the talk but does not walk the walk.

He hardly even talks the talk. I constantly hear him parroting GOP talking points.


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Inuyasha
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07 Aug 2011, 2:02 am

Orwell wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No, he's a bleeding-heart liberal in a conservative suit.


Prove it.

I say he talks the talk but does not walk the walk.

He hardly even talks the talk. I constantly hear him parroting GOP talking points.


Since when is "spread the wealth around," a GOP talking point? Since when is demonizing people in the middle class/upper middle class ($250,000 a year income), small business owners, etc. a GOP talking point? Those are Democrat/Leftist talking points, not Republican ones.



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07 Aug 2011, 8:16 am

If Obama is a Marxist then he is the most pathetic one ever. First he is not a revolutionary. But even besides that he is at most Third Way (but not really)--which most socialists view as a too far to the right. He has done absolutely nothing that would qualify him as a socialist in my books. Even the health care bill, while a positive step, was a rather sad piece of work--it is nowhere near proper universal healthcare and, besides the many confusing aspects, seems to still have many confusing aspects. Plus there will still be multiple tears to the healthcare system, which socialists hate.

The word Leninist is vague--it seems to mean whatever the user wants. If you are referring to it as an elite group ruling the rest of the country, then I think that describes most US presidents (at least in this century). But usually it's used to refer to some sort of "non-revisionist" Communist. Obama is most definitely not a communist--if he was he wouldn't have allowed a clergyman to swear him into office, for a start. And he'd dismiss the healthcare bill as "bourgeois socialism" designed to pacify the proletariat and keep them in their place. And he probably would have made the Republican party illegal... (the bad part of me wishes that was possible, but I realize that would be highly undemocratic and a very bad thing to do).

Honestly, when Americans make these sort of comments I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what socialism, Marxism, Leninism, communism and just about every other left-wing idea is. (Mind you, people use the word Communism with so many different meanings that I don't think anyone understands what it is.)



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07 Aug 2011, 2:17 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
If Obama is a Marxist then he is the most pathetic one ever. First he is not a revolutionary. But even besides that he is at most Third Way (but not really)--which most socialists view as a too far to the right. He has done absolutely nothing that would qualify him as a socialist in my books. Even the health care bill, while a positive step, was a rather sad piece of work--it is nowhere near proper universal healthcare and, besides the many confusing aspects, seems to still have many confusing aspects. Plus there will still be multiple tears to the healthcare system, which socialists hate.

The word Leninist is vague--it seems to mean whatever the user wants. If you are referring to it as an elite group ruling the rest of the country, then I think that describes most US presidents (at least in this century). But usually it's used to refer to some sort of "non-revisionist" Communist. Obama is most definitely not a communist--if he was he wouldn't have allowed a clergyman to swear him into office, for a start. And he'd dismiss the healthcare bill as "bourgeois socialism" designed to pacify the proletariat and keep them in their place. And he probably would have made the Republican party illegal... (the bad part of me wishes that was possible, but I realize that would be highly undemocratic and a very bad thing to do).

Honestly, when Americans make these sort of comments I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what socialism, Marxism, Leninism, communism and just about every other left-wing idea is. (Mind you, people use the word Communism with so many different meanings that I don't think anyone understands what it is.)


No, we actually don't have a misunderstanding, just our people have a history of self-reliance and individualism that European countries really don't have; thus marxists, communists, etc. try to be more subtle.



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07 Aug 2011, 5:03 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
Fnord wrote:
No, he's a bleeding-heart liberal in a conservative suit.

Prove it. I say he talks the talk but does not walk the walk.

Same thing. May as well just say that he's a wuss.



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07 Aug 2011, 7:14 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
If Obama is a Marxist then he is the most pathetic one ever. First he is not a revolutionary. But even besides that he is at most Third Way (but not really)--which most socialists view as a too far to the right. He has done absolutely nothing that would qualify him as a socialist in my books. Even the health care bill, while a positive step, was a rather sad piece of work--it is nowhere near proper universal healthcare and, besides the many confusing aspects, seems to still have many confusing aspects. Plus there will still be multiple tears to the healthcare system, which socialists hate.

The word Leninist is vague--it seems to mean whatever the user wants. If you are referring to it as an elite group ruling the rest of the country, then I think that describes most US presidents (at least in this century). But usually it's used to refer to some sort of "non-revisionist" Communist. Obama is most definitely not a communist--if he was he wouldn't have allowed a clergyman to swear him into office, for a start. And he'd dismiss the healthcare bill as "bourgeois socialism" designed to pacify the proletariat and keep them in their place. And he probably would have made the Republican party illegal... (the bad part of me wishes that was possible, but I realize that would be highly undemocratic and a very bad thing to do).

Honestly, when Americans make these sort of comments I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what socialism, Marxism, Leninism, communism and just about every other left-wing idea is. (Mind you, people use the word Communism with so many different meanings that I don't think anyone understands what it is.)


No, we actually don't have a misunderstanding, just our people have a history of self-reliance and individualism that European countries really don't have; thus marxists, communists, etc. try to be more subtle.

So subtle that any international observer would view him as center to center-right. Sorry, but I judge people on their actions and none of Obama's actions suggest that he is a socialist, let alone a Marxist. Even if he is a socialist at heart I think he would shame Socialist International with his actions and lack thereof, and doesn't deserve the title. And If you call that healthcare bill socialism then I really don't think you understand what socialism is. Socialism would be a universal healthcare system like in Canada or most of Europe. Socialism would be free university, or at the very least subsidized university (in Canada tuitions costs ~$7000 a year and most people wouldn't even call that socialism). A truly liberal party would immediately legalize gay marriage nation wide. Do you honestly think that most Democrats would support any of this? They are not in any way socialist. In Canada they wouldn't even qualify as liberal.



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07 Aug 2011, 7:31 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
If Obama is a Marxist then he is the most pathetic one ever. First he is not a revolutionary. But even besides that he is at most Third Way (but not really)--which most socialists view as a too far to the right. He has done absolutely nothing that would qualify him as a socialist in my books. Even the health care bill, while a positive step, was a rather sad piece of work--it is nowhere near proper universal healthcare and, besides the many confusing aspects, seems to still have many confusing aspects. Plus there will still be multiple tears to the healthcare system, which socialists hate.

The word Leninist is vague--it seems to mean whatever the user wants. If you are referring to it as an elite group ruling the rest of the country, then I think that describes most US presidents (at least in this century). But usually it's used to refer to some sort of "non-revisionist" Communist. Obama is most definitely not a communist--if he was he wouldn't have allowed a clergyman to swear him into office, for a start. And he'd dismiss the healthcare bill as "bourgeois socialism" designed to pacify the proletariat and keep them in their place. And he probably would have made the Republican party illegal... (the bad part of me wishes that was possible, but I realize that would be highly undemocratic and a very bad thing to do).

Honestly, when Americans make these sort of comments I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what socialism, Marxism, Leninism, communism and just about every other left-wing idea is. (Mind you, people use the word Communism with so many different meanings that I don't think anyone understands what it is.)


No, we actually don't have a misunderstanding, just our people have a history of self-reliance and individualism that European countries really don't have; thus marxists, communists, etc. try to be more subtle.

So subtle that any international observer would view him as center to center-right. Sorry, but I judge people on their actions and none of Obama's actions suggest that he is a socialist, let alone a Marxist. Even if he is a socialist at heart I think he would shame Socialist International with his actions and lack thereof, and doesn't deserve the title. And If you call that healthcare bill socialism then I really don't think you understand what socialism is. Socialism would be a universal healthcare system like in Canada or most of Europe. Socialism would be free university, or at the very least subsidized university (in Canada tuitions costs ~$7000 a year and most people wouldn't even call that socialism). A truly liberal party would immediately legalize gay marriage nation wide. Do you honestly think that most Democrats would support any of this? They are not in any way socialist. In Canada they wouldn't even qualify as liberal.


Quoting myself from another topic:

Inuyasha wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
It likely got taken off the site after it was reported about like what happened in 2008. Yeah I actually observed this happen in 2008.


The go pull up the archival site. Nothing is lost forever on the internet.

Back up your invective with some scholarship and you might actually start convincing some people. Otherwise it's just chatter.


http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/p-j-gl ... -new-party

Illinois: Three NP-members won Democratic primaries last Spring and face off against Republican opponents on election day: Danny Davis (U.S. House), Barack Obama (State Senate) and Patricia Martin (Cook County Judiciary).
http://web.archive.org/web/200103060312 ... p9610.html

There is also a 1996 article:

New Party members and supported candidates won 16 of 23 races, including an at-large race for the Little Rock, Ark., City Council, a seat on the county board for Little Rock and the school board for Prince George's County, Md. Chicago is sending the first New Party member to Congress, as Danny Davis, who ran as a Democrat, won an overwhelming 85% victory. New Party member Barack Obama was uncontested for a State Senate seat from Chicago.
http://www.populist.com/11.96.Edit.html

Guess we know where Obama's high speed rail initiative comes from.


http://www.wrongplanet.net/posts169989-start15.html

So yeah Obama is a Socialist.