Britain caused many of the world's problems

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NationalSocialist
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07 Apr 2011, 10:49 am

Britain is responsible for many of the world’s historic problems, including the conflict in Kashmir between India and Pakistan, David Cameron has said.


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The Prime Minister appeared to distance himself from the imperial past when he suggested that Britain was to blame for decades of tension and several wars over the disputed territory, as well as other global conflicts.

His remarks came on a visit to Pakistan, when he was asked how Britain could help to end the row over Kashmir.

He insisted that it was not his place to intervene in the dispute, saying: “I don’t want to try to insert Britain in some leading role where, as with so many of the world’s problems, we are responsible for the issue in the first place.”

His remarks about Kashmir were greeted warmly by the audience of Pakistani students and academics, but drew accusations from historians that the Prime Minister was wrongly apologising for Britain’s past.

Daisy Cooper, the director of the Commonwealth Policy Studies Unit, said: “This is typical of the UK’s schizophrenic relationship with former colonies where it is both proud and embarrassed about its past. The Coalition has said that it has big ambitions for a modern Commonwealth and the UK should stop being embarrassed about its colonial past and they should work with other countries to help improve their human rights.”


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/8430899/David-Cameron-Britain-caused-many-of-the-worlds-problems.html


A Tory admitting that Britain royally screwed the world? Sorry Mr Cameron, April Fools has past.



skafather84
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07 Apr 2011, 10:55 am

It's because global empire screws things up royally.


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Tequila
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07 Apr 2011, 12:24 pm

So I assume that the Pakistanis and Indians would rather have been ruled by the notoriously brutal Belgians, for example?

David Cameron is a Britain-hating idiot.

India and Pakistan (and Bangladesh, for that matter) have been independent for a very long time so they can't blame all their problems on their former colonial masters. They wanted them out and the British (eventually) acceded to their wish as they had no will to keep hold of what was a costly and unprofitable endeavour.



skafather84
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07 Apr 2011, 12:29 pm

Tequila wrote:
So I assume that the Pakistanis and Indians would rather have been ruled by the notoriously brutal Belgians, for example?


They probably would have preferred to not be ruled by a foreign presence.


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ryan93
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07 Apr 2011, 12:30 pm

Tequila wrote:
So I assume that the Pakistanis and Indians would rather have been ruled by the notoriously brutal Belgians, for example?

David Cameron is a Britain-hating idiot.

India and Pakistan (and Bangladesh, for that matter) have been independent for a very long time so they can't blame all their problems on their former colonial masters. They wanted them out and the British (eventually) acceded to their wish as they had no will to keep hold of what was a costly and unprofitable endeavour.


Maybe they'd rather not be ruled. Occupation on the grounds of compassion, really?

As for the "Britain Hating" thing, please don't Anglicise the ridiculous Republican rhetoric. Are Germans "Germany Hating" because they are ashamed of the Holocaust?


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07 Apr 2011, 12:31 pm

I'm sure they would have. However, the desire for independence was never really there in any serious guise up until the 20th century. When they asked for it, they got it.

Don't judge the past by the standards of the present.

When I look at the state of some of the countries (not all) of the former colonies that became independent… I think remaining British would have been better for them.



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07 Apr 2011, 12:32 pm

ryan93 wrote:
Are Germans "Germany Hating" because they are ashamed of the Holocaust?


Did we deliberately round up and massacre millions upon millions of people in British India purely on the grounds that we didn't like them at any point?



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07 Apr 2011, 12:45 pm

Tequila wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
Are Germans "Germany Hating" because they are ashamed of the Holocaust?


Did we deliberately round up and massacre millions upon millions of people in British India purely on the grounds that we didn't like them at any point?


The country occupied a large portion of the planet for a long time, which is still causing ongoing issues. Cameron was right, and an acknowledgement that a nation has a questionable past is not "Britain Hating", or whatever the current unspeak is.


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Tequila
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07 Apr 2011, 12:49 pm

Go on, I bet you're dying to break out into Fields of Athenry. :roll:

Yes, Britain has caused problems. But it's also done a hell of a lot of good. Would Hong Kong have preferred to have become just another bunch of rocks? Or Canada a peaceful and independent nation? Or Malta a stable and democratic republic? Or New Zealand a small but prosperous island? Or would India have preferred not to have the infrastructure built by the British that is the foundation of their modern republic? And so on. :)

There are places where the British behaved terribly, I agree - but sometimes you just have to let it go. Unfortunately, some people can't do that. Blaming 'da Brits' for ever and ever will get you nowhere but simmering in your own bitterness.



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07 Apr 2011, 12:56 pm

Tequila wrote:
Go on, I bet you're dying to break out into Fields of Athenry. :roll:

Yes, Britain has caused problems. But it's also done a hell of a lot of good. Would Hong Kong have preferred to have become just another bunch of rocks? Or Canada a peaceful and independent nation? Or Malta a stable and democratic republic? Or New Zealand a small but prosperous island? Or would India have preferred not to have the infrastructure built by the British that is the foundation of their modern republic? And so on. :)

There are places where the British behaved terribly, I agree - but sometimes you just have to let it go. Unfortunately, some people can't do that. Blaming 'da Brits' for ever and ever will get you nowhere but simmering in your own bitterness.


I'm not nationalist, in the slightest bit. I do not support any IRA movement, or the UDA, or the British army. Loved the racial profiling though, very classy.

I don't believe the British are the root of every problem, or that British history was entirely evil. But wrongs should be acknowledged, as Cameron did. Anything else is just nationalistic ignorance of the highest degree.


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Tequila
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07 Apr 2011, 1:02 pm

Who said I was racial profiling? Americans go on about the British too, you know. Half of Africa does especially.

My point is that this bitterness should really be put away now - it's bad for the countries concerned. Do they wish to be defined by the past (most of the people who were British officials in the colonies are either very elderly or died long ago) or do they want to move on?

What good is an apology for some of the events anyway? The people responsible are either elderly (for the colonies that were late in achieving independence) or, more usually, long dead.

It's like asking modern-day Germans to apologise for the crimes of the Nazi German state as if to say that they are responsible solely for the fact that they are Germans. It's ludicrous.



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07 Apr 2011, 1:08 pm

Personally I don't think Britain caused the world's problems. I think it was squirrels. Constantly squirrelling things away. Selfish little gits.



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07 Apr 2011, 1:11 pm

The Athenry thing was a bit uncalled for, mainly because I imagined you though I would actually associate with any ridiculous ultra-nationalist "archair IRA" movement. I could throw around the drum beating orangeman stereotype, but given the amount of people killing each other in Ireland over "that sort of thing", I don't find it helpful, or even that amusing.

As for the bitterness, I don't think it's a helpful reaction. An apology isn't that helpful (Cameron didn't conquer the east with a bayonet himself), but an acknowledgement is important.

Britain, or any other nation, cannot sweep the bad parts of its history under the carpet, and triumphantly recall the good parts, calling anyone who points out their less proud moments as being "bitter".


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07 Apr 2011, 1:14 pm

Cameron is prone to saying what people want to hear when he is visiting their country.

I'm also a bit suspicious about his historical knowledge given that he has also said that Britain was the 'junior partner' to the US in WWII in 1940. Given that the US hadn't joined the war at that point it made him look both ignorant and pathetically subserviant.

As someone of mixed Irish and British descent I recognise that England/Britain hasn't always conducted itself in a completely wholesome way. However very few countries have, and I don't see the benefit of the Prime Minister of a country kicking that country when our self image is already pretty battered. We've also done a lot of good in the world.

I doubt what he said will go down well with most in his party. I'm not even a Conservative and it made me annoyed.



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07 Apr 2011, 1:18 pm

ryan93 wrote:
I could throw around the drum beating orangeman stereotype, but given the amount of people killing each other in Ireland over "that sort of thing", I don't find it helpful, or even that amusing.


Fair enough. It wasn't particularly helpful, I suppose. Most Orangemen don't bang drums though, they're too busy walking and calling out to their friends. ;)

(Though you might understand why the British might get a bit sensitive of any criticism of themselves if they hear the more extreme nationalist elements bashing them again.)



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07 Apr 2011, 1:20 pm

Henbane wrote:
I'm also a bit suspicious about his historical knowledge given that he has also said that Britain was the 'junior partner' to the US in WWII in 1940. Given that the US hadn't joined the war at that point it made him look both ignorant and pathetically subserviant.


Yup. We stood on our own in Europe. To carry on fighting like that took an awful lot of balls. We may have been less powerful militarily than the other 'big three' major players but we still had an Empire then, which was essentially destroyed by the war.