Through the eyes of a child...

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When I was six I told my dad (who was a children's minister at the time) that I didn't believe that "evil" really existed. This was my explanation: just like in archery, "sin" means "to miss the mark (of perfection)".

Then I continued...
Light particles exist, but when they don't, we call it darkness.
Heat exists, but when it doesn't we call it cold.
Air exists, but when it doesn't we call it space.

Is the absence of positive (good) really negative (evil)?
Or are we mislabeling the absence of one existence as an opposite existence?

Considering this presented me with several other ideas:

First, even "somewhat good" is still short of perfection and can be called "sin".
Since no one is perfect all the time, we are all "sinners" even if we are "really, really, REALLY good".
So being "good" is not going to exempt you from the consequences of "sin".

There is a verse that says, "the wages of sin is death". I have always read it to mean, "the natural consequence of imperfection is the loss of immortality (an aspect of perfection)". Pretty straightforward if you ask me. Everyone dies so everyone must have "sinned", otherwise we would have immortals walking around all the time. Using the archery analogy, if you miss the mark ("sin"), you won't get a bullseye ("perfection"). Really, it's true.

Second, God doesn't punish anyone for "sinning", but he doesn't get in the way of the natural consequences either. Thus God does allow "bad things to happen" but he didn't cause them, we did. We have sucky aim. Can we really blame God for not stepping in to redirect our arrow after we've already shot it? I might claim that I can ask God for guidance before I release my arrow, just to get it closer to the mark, but I still believe I am imperfect and will therefore miss to some degree. I really believe that all we can do is pray and do our very best to succeed.

When people talk abut heaven and hell, I tend to think that heaven is where all the good stuff comes from and goes back to in the end and hell is just, well, where there is no good stuff. So what we call "bad or evil" kinda gets grouped in that category. Hell is like the cold, dark space that is defined by the absence of good. That doesn't mean that cold, dark and space can't be experienced. But we recognize it because we can compare it to something we know exists elsewhere. I think hell is everything that can be experienced in the absence of "good". God isn't there, perfection isn't there, but the part of us that is imperfect creates that space of absence, of separation from God.

Lastly, I don't think our "souls" can be split, whatever they may be made of. I think our souls are a combination of internalized experiences, attitudes, ideas, beliefs, whatever make us "us". My soul is the part of me that makes me "me". Perhaps like a book that we write. It has a story that changes, develops, and grows until it is finished. But once it is finished, the book must be judged as a whole. If it is imperfect, by definition it must be separate from perfection. Only what is found perfect in entirety can be allowed in heaven, otherwise heaven would not be perfect.

So the perfect and imperfect are separated out and our souls must find homes. How do we get them into heaven? By having our souls judged to be perfect. That I believe is where salvation comes in. The plan of salvation says that God wipes our sin away and makes our souls perfect by merging [his] spirit with ours. This Holy Spirit must be collected back into heaven and so, because our souls cannot be split, we get to tag along. One ticket to heaven.

Well, that was my theory on salvation when I was little and it hasn't changed much since. I still consider myself a Christian but I don't go to church really. I am curious what others think though. Any thoughts on this from anyone?

As I understand christian doctrine, one can only go to heaven if one believes in Jesus Christ as being the saviour, etc.

One cannot choose what to believe.

If God exists, It knows whether you are lying, so claiming to believe that Jesus Christ is my saviour will not work. Therefore, if there's a hell, I am going there, for the "sin" of requiring evidence or at least logic in claims that are presented to me.

And that is why God can kiss my buttocks.

Hahahahahah

That made my evening I must say.

No, I wouldnt say god can kiss my ass, I say the morons who organised religion, no, one step forward, the morons that continue the tradition and make s**t up as they go along can kiss my ass

Would you kiss your own if you could reach it?

Only playing!

I believe one can only save themself..

After-life doesn't concern me.

No, I probably wouldnt.. I mean, I dont kiss my arm or my knees or anything so my ass wont get any special treatment

I believe one can only save themselves as well.. Help yourself, help others

Hmm, that's interesting. It's a twist on Christianity that I haven't really heard of before. But in the end, it's still just that: a twist. Who's to say you are right vs. some other Christian coming along to say that you're wrong? I know Christians who would specifically claim that you are going to hell for your less-than-strict beliefs.

On the one hand, I really like that you have deviated from the norm to come up with an explanation that suits you and that you find satisfactory. On the other hand, I dislike the fact that so many different people with almost opposing viewpoints can use the same book to "prove" that they are right. Where does that leave us non-believers? Who are we supposed to follow, seeing as how everyone claims to be right? And how do we obtain the belief that seems to come to you so easily? As an earlier poster said, belief is not something that one chooses.

It's almost become something of annoyance when someone tells me, "I'm a Christian, but I'm very atypical..." What the hell does that mean? How do you get by with changing an ancient religion to suit you without having any evidence for doing so?

And that is one of the myriad of reasons that I abandoned religion, Christianity in particular.

I guess I just don't think of Christianity as being a very ancient religion. It just means follower of Christ so I guess if anyone really tries to follow Christ, whether they succeed or not, right or wrong, they are still trying. That I guess makes me think they can be called Christian. If I wanted to follow a band around the country and got lost along the way, I would think as long as I am trying to follow them and actively looking for them, I can be called a follower, maybe not a very good follower as better followers will better find, but a follower for my intentions, my efforts, none the less. Therefore, every Christian should be allowed to have different ways of going about their faith and should even be expected to differ in their routes, I would think. I never said I was right, only that that is what I thought and I want to hear what others think about it or what others think for themselves. It's absolutely fine to disagree with me; I like to hear what others have to say either way. I like collecting theories and ideas, even if some oppose others.

christianity...is insane on a few points. not that they will admit it.

All Abrahamic religions are insane. If you don't believe me, read the Bible; their God is a cruel murderer, and a favoritist. In the Bible, he killedanyone who got in the Jews' way, and then he turned around and killed the Jews, too. And I apologize if this offends anyone, but there's not much I can do about it.

Christians aren't the problem, though. The actual Christians I've known are just really bouncy, kinda like I am most of the time. I'm a fire and brimstone atheist when confronted with a fire and brimstone Christian, but I'm cool with someone who's just used it as a route to plug into the metaverse. The worst I'll say to them is "dude, he was turning people into zombies! He's like Dr. Re-animator!" The author of the OP was just giving his personal reflections on the religion he grew up with. That's all. Besides, he could even be a bit more agnostic now. He was just telling something that occurred to him as a precocious child, after all. Sheesh. I think it's cute.

One can choose what to believe. I do this every day. I don't believe that God sends people to hell arbitrarily, and I am more inclined to believe as the Jews do, that hell does not exist and that the price of sin is an etrnity at a great distance from God, alone, empty, and cold. I have seen some horrible things, and have a really good idea of what hell could be if He wants it to be so, but I don't think He does.

I also don't think death is at all what we think it is. For a variety of reasons I kind of came to the conclusion that the Universe *is* Heaven, and that there isn't a separate aetherial plane meant for us to occupy. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'll find out soon enough.

LOGIC FALLACY! KILL IT WITH OCCAM'S RAZOR!

Seriously, how can a "just' god send people to infinite torture for finite crimes? Real "just" deity you Christians have for yourselves.

As I said, I don't believe He does. And I'm a big fan of Occam's Razor

You used "eternity" eternity = infinite

Please refrain from poor of English in the future.

http://www.positiveatheism.org/writ/imposs.htm

Please separate logic from emotion in the future.

Huh? From Webster's...my usages denoted by *

e‧ter‧ni‧ty  /ɪˈtɜrnɪti/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[i-tur-ni-tee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun, plural -ties.
1. infinite time; duration without beginning or end.
* 2. eternal existence, esp. as contrasted with mortal life: the eternity of God.
* 3. Theology. the timeless state into which the soul passes at a person's death.
4. an endless or seemingly endless period of time: We had to wait an eternity for the check to arrive.
5. eternities, the truths or realities of life and thought that are regarded as timeless or eternal.

in‧fi‧nite  /ˈɪnfənɪt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[in-fuh-nit] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–adjective
1. immeasurably great: an infinite capacity for forgiveness.
2. indefinitely or exceedingly great: infinite sums of money.
3. unlimited or unmeasurable in extent of space, duration of time, etc.: the infinite nature of outer space.
4. unbounded or unlimited; boundless; endless: God's infinite mercy.
5. Mathematics. a. not finite.
b. (of a set) having elements that can be put into one-to-one correspondence with a subset that is not the given set.

–noun 6. something that is infinite.
7. Mathematics. an infinite quantity or magnitude.
8. the boundless regions of space.
9. the Infinite or the Infinite Being, God.



What are you, Vulcan?