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iamnotaparakeet
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31 Aug 2011, 1:11 pm

For as much as the actual death and destruction in wars is horrible, is the aspect of warfare known as strategy itself bad? I'm not referring to the etymological roots, which would mean a trick, but I mean instead it's more modern usage. Strategy is the planning of the general form of a war, as opposed to tactics which are specific actions taken to thwart a strategy. In computer gaming there are many games of strategy, my favorite being real time strategy games although the turn based ones do allow for more time to think actions through. For those who are opposed to warfare because it is violent and causes death and destruction, are you also opposed to strategy and games of strategy in which there is no real death or destruction occurring?



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31 Aug 2011, 1:48 pm

I hope not. If strategy was bad then I would be pure evil from the amount of wargames I play. :twisted:


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31 Aug 2011, 2:05 pm

You dont mean "strategy". You mean simulated, or pretend warfare.

Before they had X-box they had football, and they had chess, to simulate armies in battle.


I would say no. Even if I were a strict pacifist I doubt that I would object to chess, football, or to X-box games.

People rarely die in any of those activities.



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31 Aug 2011, 2:16 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
I hope not. If strategy was bad then I would be pure evil from the amount of wargames I play. :twisted:


I guess its only a matter of time before I must stand before a war crimes tribunal for all the AI soldiers I have massacred :(


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iamnotaparakeet
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31 Aug 2011, 3:11 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
You dont mean "strategy". You mean simulated, or pretend warfare.

Before they had X-box they had football, and they had chess, to simulate armies in battle.


I do not mean just computer simulated warfare, which could include first person shooters which have little to do with strategy and more to do with having virtually infinite health and clicking at AI which don't. Chess, checkers, Risk, Stratego, etc, are strategy games just as much as computer games that deal with the organization of warfare.


naturalplastic wrote:
I would say no. Even if I were a strict pacifist I doubt that I would object to chess, football, or to X-box games.

People rarely die in any of those activities.


I agree with you, although it would be bizarre if somebody died from playing chess.



iamnotaparakeet
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31 Aug 2011, 3:12 pm

Vigilans wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I hope not. If strategy was bad then I would be pure evil from the amount of wargames I play. :twisted:


I guess its only a matter of time before I must stand before a war crimes tribunal for all the AI soldiers I have massacred :(


As would I. I'd hate to think how many quintillions of lives I would have killed in planetary bombardment by now if such were real.



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31 Aug 2011, 3:36 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I hope not. If strategy was bad then I would be pure evil from the amount of wargames I play. :twisted:


I guess its only a matter of time before I must stand before a war crimes tribunal for all the AI soldiers I have massacred :(


As would I. I'd hate to think how many quintillions of lives I would have killed in planetary bombardment by now if such were real.


Don't worry, I have secured transport with Hugo Chavez to Venezuela. After he picks up Gaddafi he's gonna swing by Montreal to get me, and I can arrange for you and puddingmouse to escape as well


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techstepgenr8tion
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31 Aug 2011, 3:39 pm

No, because better you can do at collapsing the opposition and doing it quickly the fewer lives lost on both sides.


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31 Aug 2011, 3:47 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I hope not. If strategy was bad then I would be pure evil from the amount of wargames I play. :twisted:


I guess its only a matter of time before I must stand before a war crimes tribunal for all the AI soldiers I have massacred :(


As would I. I'd hate to think how many quintillions of lives I would have killed in planetary bombardment by now if such were real.


Its only a crime if you kill em after they surrender. None of my plastic army men would ever surrender! So I had no choice but to keep killing 'em.



iamnotaparakeet
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31 Aug 2011, 3:47 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
No, because better you can do at collapsing the opposition and doing it quickly the fewer lives lost on both sides.


What if my primary method of quickly conquering enemies is making their homeworlds uninhabitable?



iamnotaparakeet
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31 Aug 2011, 3:48 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
I hope not. If strategy was bad then I would be pure evil from the amount of wargames I play. :twisted:


I guess its only a matter of time before I must stand before a war crimes tribunal for all the AI soldiers I have massacred :(


As would I. I'd hate to think how many quintillions of lives I would have killed in planetary bombardment by now if such were real.


Its only a crime if you kill em after they surrender. None of my plastic army men would ever surrender! So I had no choice but to keep killing 'em.


SET THEM ON FIRE. :twisted:



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31 Aug 2011, 5:17 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
No, because better you can do at collapsing the opposition and doing it quickly the fewer lives lost on both sides.


What if my primary method of quickly conquering enemies is making their homeworlds uninhabitable?

That would be horridly inefficient. You'd be missing out on taking a lot of great resources and technology as well as a potential labor pool and, once dissent and hard feelings are resolved, a trading partner and ally even.

Regardless of how blood-thirsty you are you have to still know a potential long-term asset that can be flipped when you see it.


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iamnotaparakeet
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31 Aug 2011, 5:21 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
techstepgenr8tion wrote:
No, because better you can do at collapsing the opposition and doing it quickly the fewer lives lost on both sides.


What if my primary method of quickly conquering enemies is making their homeworlds uninhabitable?

That would be horridly inefficient. You'd be missing out on taking a lot of great resources and technology as well as a potential labor pool and, once dissent and hard feelings are resolved, a trading partner and ally even.

Regardless of how blood-thirsty you are you have to still know a potential long-term asset that can be flipped when you see it.


Possibly, but if I already have the capability to utilize their planet's mineral resources without their labor, then why should I want a few billion whiny people to tell me how to run my empire? After the planet is made to be habitable again, it can become a new colony rather than a form of protectorate or whatever.



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31 Aug 2011, 5:33 pm

What if its a species of lithovores living in a climate that's radioactive or toxic to us in some other way like Venus? What if they can make unique metal alloys in their climate of 900F with sulfuric acid and methane ultra-plentiful in ways that you can't? I'd personally chose to just squash the static and trade with them but if you're into annihilating sentient species and even being the aggressor in this example I suppose there wouldn't be much diplomacy to be done. I'd still think exterminating other races is sloppy and sets a bad precedent but what do I know.


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iamnotaparakeet
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31 Aug 2011, 5:56 pm

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
What if its a species of lithovores living in a climate that's radioactive or toxic to us in some other way like Venus? What if they can make unique metal alloys in their climate of 900F with sulfuric acid and methane ultra-plentiful in ways that you can't? I'd personally chose to just squash the static and trade with them but if you're into annihilating sentient species and even being the aggressor in this example I suppose there wouldn't be much diplomacy to be done. I'd still think exterminating other races is sloppy and sets a bad precedent but what do I know.


If they want to trade, alright. If they want to fight, smash their planet with asteroids. In too many space based RTS games trading with the AI is not an option really. Even if they act friendly for a while they eventually build up fleets and show their true colors, so until an AI behaves better the best route is annihilation.



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31 Aug 2011, 9:19 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
I would say no. Even if I were a strict pacifist I doubt that I would object to chess, football, or to X-box games.

People rarely die in any of those activities.


I agree with you, although it would be bizarre if somebody died from playing chess.

Quite a number of people actually have died while playing chess. There are disputed reports over whether some deaths were somehow a result of chess.


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