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ruveyn
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05 Sep 2011, 8:49 pm

Take a look at this:

http://www.thirdage.com/news/usps-going ... 09-05-2011

and

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/postal-o ... d=14449522

If the United States Postal Service can't do something simple like deliver the mail, what can they do right (besides lie to the people and get us into unnecessary wars)?

ruveyn



AceOfSpades
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05 Sep 2011, 9:07 pm

Sigh. Each market is affected by different types of dynamics, so the Postal Service isn't a reliable measure of the Government's overall suitability in every type of market. Seeing as the Government is established as a monolithic, centralized macro-managing structure it is effective for things that are suited for that. Private charity for example is very localized and due to its decentralization it doesn't have standardized quality control which is why we have taxation and social assistance. Oh and private charity also have layers upon layers of bureaucracy which ends up with a lot of the money being siphoned before it even reaches the people its supposed to. And of course there is the same potential for corruption since there is no cause, ideal, or campaign that can't be ran like a business.



ruveyn
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05 Sep 2011, 9:12 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Sigh. Each market is affected by different types of dynamics, so the Postal Service isn't a reliable measure of the Government's overall suitability in every type of market. Seeing as the Government is established as a monolithic, centralized macro-managing structure it is effective for things that are suited for that. Private charity for example is very localized and due to its decentralization it doesn't have standardized quality control which is why we have taxation and social assistance. Oh and private charity also have layers upon layers of bureaucracy which ends up with a lot of the money being siphoned before it even reaches the people its supposed to. And of course there is the same potential for corruption since there is no cause, ideal, or campaign that can't be ran like a business.


Fine. Then why doesn't the government get out of the mail delivery business and let a private firm or firms do it right? Package deliveries are adequately handled by FedEx and Mr. Brown and several others., As you know it is against the law for any private firm to deliver or offer to deliver first class mail.
Congress could change that tomorrow if they so chose.

ruveyn



Tadzio
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05 Sep 2011, 9:26 pm

This illustrates that the government should not be operated like a business, esp. since the Wealth of Nations wasn't published until years later. (Hint: How can you base something on something else before the "something else" existed?, Oh, that's right, just butcher history!! !).



cw10
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05 Sep 2011, 9:38 pm

Yeah Uncle Sam can't run a business. I have a feeling much of the profit the US postal service used to bring in was eaten away by package services, that's how the package services stay in business. I think in all probability first class mail would be a loss center for FedEx or UPS or any of the other package services. Yeah they can take it on, but I don't think they want to.



AceOfSpades
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05 Sep 2011, 9:41 pm

ruveyn wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
Sigh. Each market is affected by different types of dynamics, so the Postal Service isn't a reliable measure of the Government's overall suitability in every type of market. Seeing as the Government is established as a monolithic, centralized macro-managing structure it is effective for things that are suited for that. Private charity for example is very localized and due to its decentralization it doesn't have standardized quality control which is why we have taxation and social assistance. Oh and private charity also have layers upon layers of bureaucracy which ends up with a lot of the money being siphoned before it even reaches the people its supposed to. And of course there is the same potential for corruption since there is no cause, ideal, or campaign that can't be ran like a business.


Fine. Then why doesn't the government get out of the mail delivery business and let a private firm or firms do it right? Package deliveries are adequately handled by FedEx and Mr. Brown and several others., As you know it is against the law for any private firm to deliver or offer to deliver first class mail.
Congress could change that tomorrow if they so chose.

ruveyn
Well I personally don't have any issues with the Government postal service, but I don't know how the postal service is in the states compared to up here. But yeah they should allow first class mail to be delivered.



pandabear
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05 Sep 2011, 10:01 pm

ruveyn wrote:
If the United States Postal Service can't do something simple like deliver the mail, what can they do right (besides lie to the people and get us into unnecessary wars)?

ruveyn


When has the Post Office ever started an unnecessary war?



ruveyn
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06 Sep 2011, 4:35 am

pandabear wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
If the United States Postal Service can't do something simple like deliver the mail, what can they do right (besides lie to the people and get us into unnecessary wars)?

ruveyn


When has the Post Office ever started an unnecessary war?


Never. The post office is useful and harmless which is why the government cannot run it right.

ruveyn



Jacoby
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06 Sep 2011, 6:22 am

Let it go belly up. It will be obsolete soon enough when everything is digital, private business can pick up the rest.



ruveyn
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06 Sep 2011, 6:30 am

The solution is to let private firms handle whatever first class mail must be handled. We have several private firms that deliver parcels. They should be able to handle first class mail as well. It will be realistically priced and it is good-bye to rural free delivery. Since the U.S. is mostly an urban country there is no reason to subsidize deliveries to rural customers. They should bear the actual cost of the service. People living in urban densely populated areas will get a break in postal rates, people living out in the sticks will just have to pay more because it costs more to pick up and deliver to them.

ruveyn



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06 Sep 2011, 9:33 am

The U.S. Postal Service has statutory obligations in its pricing and service. Sure, it could operate more like a for-profit business and charge higher rates to rural customers or not serve them at all. Traditionally, the government has provided services that the private sector could not profit from.



pandabear
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06 Sep 2011, 9:47 am

Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution empowered the US Congress to establish post offices.

Is there anything else that you don't like about the Constitution?



ruveyn
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06 Sep 2011, 10:09 am

pandabear wrote:
Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution empowered the US Congress to establish post offices.

Is there anything else that you don't like about the Constitution?


The power to establish post offices does not give the government a monopoly on the delivery of first class mail. All it says is that the government can deliver mail (which it does, and badly at that). It does NOT say the government can forbid anyone else from delivering mail. In point of fact parcels and packages are well delivered by profitable private firms. So why not first class mail?

RFD will have to be eliminated, because it is a subsidy that weakens the system. Once rural folk have to pay their fair share, there should be no objection to private parties delivering mail and charging according to the cost of delivery, as opposed to having a one rate fits all system.

ruveyn



zer0netgain
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06 Sep 2011, 11:41 am

ruveyn wrote:
pandabear wrote:
Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution empowered the US Congress to establish post offices.

Is there anything else that you don't like about the Constitution?


The power to establish post offices does not give the government a monopoly on the delivery of first class mail. All it says is that the government can deliver mail (which it does, and badly at that). It does NOT say the government can forbid anyone else from delivering mail. In point of fact parcels and packages are well delivered by profitable private firms. So why not first class mail?

RFD will have to be eliminated, because it is a subsidy that weakens the system. Once rural folk have to pay their fair share, there should be no objection to private parties delivering mail and charging according to the cost of delivery, as opposed to having a one rate fits all system.

ruveyn


I wasn't aware that RFD was still going on. I've lived fairly rural and they still require stamps to move a letter.



blauSamstag
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06 Sep 2011, 11:50 am

isn't the postal service still semi-privatized?



pandabear
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06 Sep 2011, 12:33 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
isn't the postal service still semi-privatized?


Yes. As I understand it, the Post Office doesn't get any appropriations from the government--they are self-funded. Congress, however, does set the price of stamps.

Anyone can deliver letters, but only the post office can put mail in your mail box. FEDEX and UPS have to drop them off at your door, or ring your doorbell and hand them to you.