A funny claim about the Origin of the Hebrew alphabet.
The_Face_of_Boo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
13 Sep 2011, 2:06 pm
Or I should call it, intelligence-insulting claim, but I saw this BS on several Bible sites:
Quote:
Some linguists attribute the development of the first true alphabet to the Phonecians. But some scholars believe that the phonecians actually adopted the alphabet from a prior Semitic culture8. The actual origin of the alphabet can not be proven, but if the origin of the Hebrew language is from God, then the Hebrew alphabet must have also come from God. The phonecians, like many other semitic cultures, adopted the Hebrew alphabet for their own language.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification ancient history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe. Any reasonable expert linguistic would laugh his ass off by reading this.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
Quote:
The Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: אָלֶף־בֵּית עִבְרִי[a], Alephbet 'Ivri), known variously by scholars as the Jewish script, square script, block script, or more historically, the Assyrian script, is used in the writing of the Hebrew language, as well as other Jewish languages, most notably Yiddish, Ladino, and Judeo-Arabic. There have been two script forms in use. The original old Hebrew script is known as the paleo-Hebrew script (which has been largely preserved, in an altered form, in the Samaritan script), while the present "square" form of the Hebrew alphabet is a stylized form of the Aramaic script. Various "styles" (in current terms, "fonts") of representation of the letters exist. There is also a cursive Hebrew script, which has also varied over time and place.
the paleo-Hebrew script
Quote:
The Paleo-Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: כתב עברי עתיק), is an abjad offshoot of the ancient Semitic alphabet, identical to the Phoenician alphabet. At the very least it dates to the 10th century BCE. It was used as the main vehicle for writing the Hebrew language by the Israelites, both Jews and Samaritans.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
The Aramaic alphabet
Quote:
The Aramaic alphabet is adapted from the Phoenician alphabet and became distinctive from it by the 8th century BC. The letters all represent consonants, some of which are matres lectionis, which also indicate long vowels.
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Joker
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Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
13 Sep 2011, 2:17 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Or I should call it, intelligence-insulting claim, but I saw this BS on several Bible sites:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification of ancient civilizations' history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
the paleo-Hebrew script
The Aramaic alphabet
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Quote:
Some linguists attribute the development of the first true alphabet to the Phonecians. But some scholars believe that the phonecians actually adopted the alphabet from a prior Semitic culture8. The actual origin of the alphabet can not be proven, but if the origin of the Hebrew language is from God, then the Hebrew alphabet must have also come from God. The phonecians, like many other semitic cultures, adopted the Hebrew alphabet for their own language.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification of ancient civilizations' history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
Quote:
The Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: אָלֶף־בֵּית עִבְרִי[a], Alephbet 'Ivri), known variously by scholars as the Jewish script, square script, block script, or more historically, the Assyrian script, is used in the writing of the Hebrew language, as well as other Jewish languages, most notably Yiddish, Ladino, and Judeo-Arabic. There have been two script forms in use. The original old Hebrew script is known as the paleo-Hebrew script (which has been largely preserved, in an altered form, in the Samaritan script), while the present "square" form of the Hebrew alphabet is a stylized form of the Aramaic script. Various "styles" (in current terms, "fonts") of representation of the letters exist. There is also a cursive Hebrew script, which has also varied over time and place.
the paleo-Hebrew script
Quote:
The Paleo-Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: כתב עברי עתיק), is an abjad offshoot of the ancient Semitic alphabet, identical to the Phoenician alphabet. At the very least it dates to the 10th century BCE. It was used as the main vehicle for writing the Hebrew language by the Israelites, both Jews and Samaritans.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
The Aramaic alphabet
Quote:
The Aramaic alphabet is adapted from the Phoenician alphabet and became distinctive from it by the 8th century BC. The letters all represent consonants, some of which are matres lectionis, which also indicate long vowels.
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Finally some one says it cudos to you The Face Of Boo I would rather speak Arabic or Aramaic then Hebrew I have mixed views of the Jewish people something I would rather not get into just saying I come from a German Irish Cherokee background I wonder what they say about the German Celtic and Cherokee language obviously they would their all pagan languages.....
JeremyNJ1984
Velociraptor
Joined: 9 Oct 2010
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 496
Location: Central New Jersey
13 Sep 2011, 2:24 pm
Joker wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Or I should call it, intelligence-insulting claim, but I saw this BS on several Bible sites:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification of ancient civilizations' history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
the paleo-Hebrew script
The Aramaic alphabet
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Quote:
Some linguists attribute the development of the first true alphabet to the Phonecians. But some scholars believe that the phonecians actually adopted the alphabet from a prior Semitic culture8. The actual origin of the alphabet can not be proven, but if the origin of the Hebrew language is from God, then the Hebrew alphabet must have also come from God. The phonecians, like many other semitic cultures, adopted the Hebrew alphabet for their own language.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification of ancient civilizations' history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
Quote:
The Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: אָלֶף־בֵּית עִבְרִי[a], Alephbet 'Ivri), known variously by scholars as the Jewish script, square script, block script, or more historically, the Assyrian script, is used in the writing of the Hebrew language, as well as other Jewish languages, most notably Yiddish, Ladino, and Judeo-Arabic. There have been two script forms in use. The original old Hebrew script is known as the paleo-Hebrew script (which has been largely preserved, in an altered form, in the Samaritan script), while the present "square" form of the Hebrew alphabet is a stylized form of the Aramaic script. Various "styles" (in current terms, "fonts") of representation of the letters exist. There is also a cursive Hebrew script, which has also varied over time and place.
the paleo-Hebrew script
Quote:
The Paleo-Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: כתב עברי עתיק), is an abjad offshoot of the ancient Semitic alphabet, identical to the Phoenician alphabet. At the very least it dates to the 10th century BCE. It was used as the main vehicle for writing the Hebrew language by the Israelites, both Jews and Samaritans.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
The Aramaic alphabet
Quote:
The Aramaic alphabet is adapted from the Phoenician alphabet and became distinctive from it by the 8th century BC. The letters all represent consonants, some of which are matres lectionis, which also indicate long vowels.
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Finally some one says it cudos to you The Face Of Boo I would rather speak Arabic or Aramaic then Hebrew I have mixed views of the Jewish people something I would rather not get into just saying I come from a German Irish Cherokee background I wonder what they say about the German Celtic and Cherokee language obviously they would their all pagan languages.....
Don't worry...we don't give a s**t about you either. So don't worry. BTW, Boo makes a false leap by providing two wikipedia entries that did not in of itself prove hebrew derived from phoencian. It merely stated hebrew is one of many languages that had a PALEO-Semitic origin. The Phoencian Alphabet developed at roughly the same time period as Hebrew. What came first is irrelevent as both alphabets had seperate linguistic evolutions branching off a common mother tongue. Knowing that Boo is Lebanese it is easy to see why he sees Jewish conspiracies when he states the " hebrewize" of language by " biblists"....Is boo that detached from western knowledge that he thinks all of us in the west use the bible as our guideline for everything?
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
13 Sep 2011, 2:45 pm
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Joker wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Or I should call it, intelligence-insulting claim, but I saw this BS on several Bible sites:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification of ancient civilizations' history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
the paleo-Hebrew script
The Aramaic alphabet
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Quote:
Some linguists attribute the development of the first true alphabet to the Phonecians. But some scholars believe that the phonecians actually adopted the alphabet from a prior Semitic culture8. The actual origin of the alphabet can not be proven, but if the origin of the Hebrew language is from God, then the Hebrew alphabet must have also come from God. The phonecians, like many other semitic cultures, adopted the Hebrew alphabet for their own language.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification of ancient civilizations' history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
Quote:
The Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: אָלֶף־בֵּית עִבְרִי[a], Alephbet 'Ivri), known variously by scholars as the Jewish script, square script, block script, or more historically, the Assyrian script, is used in the writing of the Hebrew language, as well as other Jewish languages, most notably Yiddish, Ladino, and Judeo-Arabic. There have been two script forms in use. The original old Hebrew script is known as the paleo-Hebrew script (which has been largely preserved, in an altered form, in the Samaritan script), while the present "square" form of the Hebrew alphabet is a stylized form of the Aramaic script. Various "styles" (in current terms, "fonts") of representation of the letters exist. There is also a cursive Hebrew script, which has also varied over time and place.
the paleo-Hebrew script
Quote:
The Paleo-Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: כתב עברי עתיק), is an abjad offshoot of the ancient Semitic alphabet, identical to the Phoenician alphabet. At the very least it dates to the 10th century BCE. It was used as the main vehicle for writing the Hebrew language by the Israelites, both Jews and Samaritans.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
The Aramaic alphabet
Quote:
The Aramaic alphabet is adapted from the Phoenician alphabet and became distinctive from it by the 8th century BC. The letters all represent consonants, some of which are matres lectionis, which also indicate long vowels.
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Finally some one says it cudos to you The Face Of Boo I would rather speak Arabic or Aramaic then Hebrew I have mixed views of the Jewish people something I would rather not get into just saying I come from a German Irish Cherokee background I wonder what they say about the German Celtic and Cherokee language obviously they would their all pagan languages.....
Don't worry...we don't give a sh** about you either. So don't worry. BTW, Boo makes a false leap by providing two wikipedia entries that did not in of itself prove hebrew derived from phoencian. It merely stated hebrew is one of many languages that had a PALEO-Semitic origin. The Phoencian Alphabet developed at roughly the same time period as Hebrew. What came first is irrelevent as both alphabets had seperate linguistic evolutions branching off a common mother tongue. Knowing that Boo is Lebanese it is easy to see why he sees Jewish conspiracies when he states the " hebrewize" of language by " biblists"....Is boo that detached from western knowledge that he thinks all of us in the west use the bible as our guideline for everything?
And the fact that your jewish of course your going to get upset about The Face Of Boo giving his opinon about the Hewbrew Alphabet since he is Lebanese even if he used a link to do so is irrelevent.
BTW I am a christian never stated that I hated the jews just have mixed opinons on them an their goverment.
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
13 Sep 2011, 3:11 pm
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Joker wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Or I should call it, intelligence-insulting claim, but I saw this BS on several Bible sites:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification of ancient civilizations' history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
the paleo-Hebrew script
The Aramaic alphabet
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Quote:
Some linguists attribute the development of the first true alphabet to the Phonecians. But some scholars believe that the phonecians actually adopted the alphabet from a prior Semitic culture8. The actual origin of the alphabet can not be proven, but if the origin of the Hebrew language is from God, then the Hebrew alphabet must have also come from God. The phonecians, like many other semitic cultures, adopted the Hebrew alphabet for their own language.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification of ancient civilizations' history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
Quote:
The Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: אָלֶף־בֵּית עִבְרִי[a], Alephbet 'Ivri), known variously by scholars as the Jewish script, square script, block script, or more historically, the Assyrian script, is used in the writing of the Hebrew language, as well as other Jewish languages, most notably Yiddish, Ladino, and Judeo-Arabic. There have been two script forms in use. The original old Hebrew script is known as the paleo-Hebrew script (which has been largely preserved, in an altered form, in the Samaritan script), while the present "square" form of the Hebrew alphabet is a stylized form of the Aramaic script. Various "styles" (in current terms, "fonts") of representation of the letters exist. There is also a cursive Hebrew script, which has also varied over time and place.
the paleo-Hebrew script
Quote:
The Paleo-Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: כתב עברי עתיק), is an abjad offshoot of the ancient Semitic alphabet, identical to the Phoenician alphabet. At the very least it dates to the 10th century BCE. It was used as the main vehicle for writing the Hebrew language by the Israelites, both Jews and Samaritans.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
The Aramaic alphabet
Quote:
The Aramaic alphabet is adapted from the Phoenician alphabet and became distinctive from it by the 8th century BC. The letters all represent consonants, some of which are matres lectionis, which also indicate long vowels.
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Finally some one says it cudos to you The Face Of Boo I would rather speak Arabic or Aramaic then Hebrew I have mixed views of the Jewish people something I would rather not get into just saying I come from a German Irish Cherokee background I wonder what they say about the German Celtic and Cherokee language obviously they would their all pagan languages.....
Don't worry...we don't give a sh** about you either. So don't worry. BTW, Boo makes a false leap by providing two wikipedia entries that did not in of itself prove hebrew derived from phoencian. It merely stated hebrew is one of many languages that had a PALEO-Semitic origin. The Phoencian Alphabet developed at roughly the same time period as Hebrew. What came first is irrelevent as both alphabets had seperate linguistic evolutions branching off a common mother tongue. Knowing that Boo is Lebanese it is easy to see why he sees Jewish conspiracies when he states the " hebrewize" of language by " biblists"....Is boo that detached from western knowledge that he thinks all of us in the west use the bible as our guideline for everything?
I am not detached or anything, but the presence of these claims only tell that many of the fundies believe in a such falsification. I am not talking conspiracy theories, but about people's opinions that really exist and clearly stated.
and don't build your judgement based on my nationality.
And why you're so upset anyways, distant sibling? if Hebrew is really the grand child of Phoenician, isn't that an evidence that the Jews' origin is from these lands?
And, linguistically, there's nothing called " PALEO-Semitic" , it's called "Paleo-Hebrew" and it had an identical alphabet of the Phoenician.
Btw, I am atheist, and I think that all religions are history-based myths.
Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 13 Sep 2011, 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The_Face_of_Boo
Veteran
Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Age: 42
Gender: Non-binary
Posts: 33,072
Location: Beirut, Lebanon.
13 Sep 2011, 3:25 pm
Quote:
The Phoencian Alphabet developed at roughly the same time period as Hebrew.
Ancient Hebrew used Phoenician letters, and then the ancient jews adopted the Aramaic alphabet , which is by itself, a developed form of the Phoenician alphabet, the Hebrew alphabet came after the Aramaic. At least that what the historians and linguistics of ancient languages say, I am not inventing anything.
Joker
Veteran
Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
13 Sep 2011, 3:28 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
JeremyNJ1984 wrote:
Joker wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Or I should call it, intelligence-insulting claim, but I saw this BS on several Bible sites:
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification of ancient civilizations' history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
the paleo-Hebrew script
The Aramaic alphabet
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Quote:
Some linguists attribute the development of the first true alphabet to the Phonecians. But some scholars believe that the phonecians actually adopted the alphabet from a prior Semitic culture8. The actual origin of the alphabet can not be proven, but if the origin of the Hebrew language is from God, then the Hebrew alphabet must have also come from God. The phonecians, like many other semitic cultures, adopted the Hebrew alphabet for their own language.
http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/11_alphabet.html
What's in bold is total BS and total falsification of ancient civilizations' history, a cheap attempt to "Hebrewize" a very critical turn-point that affected the human civilizations in the the Middle East and, Africa and even parts of Europe.
lol "the Language of god" = so it must be the origin of the alphabet.
From Wiki (which I trust it far more that Bible zealots):
Quote:
The Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: אָלֶף־בֵּית עִבְרִי[a], Alephbet 'Ivri), known variously by scholars as the Jewish script, square script, block script, or more historically, the Assyrian script, is used in the writing of the Hebrew language, as well as other Jewish languages, most notably Yiddish, Ladino, and Judeo-Arabic. There have been two script forms in use. The original old Hebrew script is known as the paleo-Hebrew script (which has been largely preserved, in an altered form, in the Samaritan script), while the present "square" form of the Hebrew alphabet is a stylized form of the Aramaic script. Various "styles" (in current terms, "fonts") of representation of the letters exist. There is also a cursive Hebrew script, which has also varied over time and place.
the paleo-Hebrew script
Quote:
The Paleo-Hebrew alphabet (Hebrew: כתב עברי עתיק), is an abjad offshoot of the ancient Semitic alphabet, identical to the Phoenician alphabet. At the very least it dates to the 10th century BCE. It was used as the main vehicle for writing the Hebrew language by the Israelites, both Jews and Samaritans.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
It began to fall out of use by the Jews in the 5th century BCE when they adopted the Aramaic alphabet as their writing system for Hebrew, from which the present Jewish "square-script" Hebrew alphabet descends. The Samaritans, who now number less than one thousand people, continue to use a derivative of the Old Hebrew alphabet, known as the Samaritan alphabet.
The Aramaic alphabet
Quote:
The Aramaic alphabet is adapted from the Phoenician alphabet and became distinctive from it by the 8th century BC. The letters all represent consonants, some of which are matres lectionis, which also indicate long vowels.
Sorry Biblists, Hebrew is the grandchild of the Phoenician alphabet/language, not the other way around. Arabic is also its grand grandchild (after Aramaic, Syriac and Nabatean).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenician_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Hebrew_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aramaic_alphabet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hebrew_alphabet
Finally some one says it cudos to you The Face Of Boo I would rather speak Arabic or Aramaic then Hebrew I have mixed views of the Jewish people something I would rather not get into just saying I come from a German Irish Cherokee background I wonder what they say about the German Celtic and Cherokee language obviously they would their all pagan languages.....
Don't worry...we don't give a sh** about you either. So don't worry. BTW, Boo makes a false leap by providing two wikipedia entries that did not in of itself prove hebrew derived from phoencian. It merely stated hebrew is one of many languages that had a PALEO-Semitic origin. The Phoencian Alphabet developed at roughly the same time period as Hebrew. What came first is irrelevent as both alphabets had seperate linguistic evolutions branching off a common mother tongue. Knowing that Boo is Lebanese it is easy to see why he sees Jewish conspiracies when he states the " hebrewize" of language by " biblists"....Is boo that detached from western knowledge that he thinks all of us in the west use the bible as our guideline for everything?
I am not detached or anything, but the presence of these claims only tell that many of the fundies believe in a such falsification.
and don't build your judgement based on my nationality.
And why you're so upset anyways, distant sibling? if Hebrew is really the grand child of Phoenician, isn't that an evidence that the Jews' origin is from these lands?
And, linguistically, there's nothing called " PALEO-Semitic" , it's called "Paleo-Hebrew" and it had an identical alphabet of the Phoenician.
Btw, I am atheist, and I think that all religions are history-based myths.
Of course a Jew will build their judgement based on your nationality just like he would judge me for being of German Irish descent its all to common of them to do so
Joker
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13 Sep 2011, 3:39 pm
ruveyn wrote:
Joker wrote:
[
Of course a Jew will build their judgement based on your nationality just like he would judge me for being of German Irish descent its all to common of them to do so
Of course a Jew will build their judgement based on your nationality just like he would judge me for being of German Irish descent its all to common of them to do so
Have you met every Jew? You know how they all think?
ruveyn
Never said that I know how my friends who are jewish think next time I will make sure to word it that way for you. Plus ive dated a jewish girl in the past it didnt work out because of religion but mostly because I wasnt jewish an she was not German or Irish so our familys never liked us being together because of that
The_Face_of_Boo
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Joker
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Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)
13 Sep 2011, 4:12 pm
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
and I am not a holocaust-denier either, historical facts are historical facts.
Neither am I the holocaust was the most shameful thing that Germany has ever done all because of a mad man an this belief in a superory race never understood why so many countrys blame the jewish people for everything
Kraichgauer
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13 Sep 2011, 7:33 pm
To fight fire with fire...*
a. My Bible is written in English
b. God inspired the writing of the Bible
:: English is the language of God
How can a language that's been dead for over a three millenia (Phoenician) have been derived from a language that only appeared as in a distinct form for only the last 1200 years?
(*... or bogusity with bogusity...)
_________________
13 Sep 2011, 8:40 pm
The Phonecians were the first peoples to develop a totally sound-based form of writing. Hebrew and Aramaic are derivative languages and use the Phonecian alphabet or a variant of it. The Phonecian traders passed their sound system to the Greeks. Alpha, Beta, Gamma -- Aleph, Beth, Giimmel..
Hebrew, Urgeritic, Aramaic and Arabic are all related languages using similar letter-sound systems to write the language.
ruveyn
13 Sep 2011, 8:56 pm
Kraichgauer wrote:
Funny how the discussion of how the Hebrew-Phoenician alphabets originated somehow turned into a back and forth about the Holocaust.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
For real.
If I were a bouncer Id through em both out.
About the original topic: I always heard that both scripts came from Egyptian Hieroglyphics.
Like Chinese Egyptian has one symbol per word (thus needing tens of thousands of symbols), Hebrew paired it down to one symbol per syllable ( a consonant and vowel paired -thus needing only hundreds of symbols). And the sea faring Phonecians (maybe because they encountered more foriegn languages or had more bookkeeping to do) paired that down to the first true phonetic alphabet of both vowels and consonants needing only a couple dozen letters. The Phonecian script became the ancestor of both the Greek, and Roman alphabets ( the former in turn leading to the Russian Cyrillic alphabet) and the latter being what this is written in.
In fact Discover magazine had an article about bronze age graffitti found on rocks in the Sinai left by travelling semetic merchants who wrote in a kind of short hand Egyptian that shows trends toward evolving into the various semetic alphabets.
At any rate both scripts are thought to have come from the far older Egyptian Hieroglyphic system invented by the Pagan Egyptians without any assistence from Jehovah.
Infact I have read that atleast one Egyptian Heiroglyph has been passed down through all of these ancient scripts, and is still in common use here in the USA. That being the traditional symbol for a Pharmacy. The "RX" symbol is not really either an "r" or an "x" but a stylized version the Eye of Horus.
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