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Whitehouse pressures AF general to falsify testimony.....

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Raptor
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15 Sep 2011, 8:25 pm

Whitehouse pressures AF general to falsify testimony.

Can't say I'm too surprised. :roll:



DeaconBlues
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15 Sep 2011, 8:43 pm

What, that some right-wing website is going to take unsubstantiated allegations and speculations about what it might mean if it were true, and try to spin it into an attack on the Obama administration? Nope, can't say that surprises me at all.


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15 Sep 2011, 10:02 pm

DeaconBlues wrote:
What, that some right-wing website is going to take unsubstantiated allegations and speculations about what it might mean if it were true, and try to spin it into an attack on the Obama administration? Nope, can't say that surprises me at all.


Right being what, anything right of far left?
Whatever.............. :roll:



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16 Sep 2011, 1:55 pm

A few home truths:

1) Neither of the insertions sought by the White House appear to me to be false. They may change the tone of the general's message, but that is not the same thing as falsification.

2) The General is briefing Congress as a part of the Executive Branch of government. The executive branch speaks with one voice.

3) The President is the General's CINC. The General has an important role in briefing the chain of command, and dissent is an important part of that process--but once the President has made the call, then it becomes the government's responsibility to adhere to that policy (and the military no less so).

Now, there is certainly a legitimate question about whether the White House was improperly motivated in tailoring the briefing. But in that respect this administration is no different than any other. Administrations from the dawn of time have been mindful of their friends and their opponents, and democratic elections have only served to amplify that. Just as Haliburton benefitted under the previous administration, so too others will benefit under this one. Thus it has ever been.

Now, if you want to get to the root of corruption, then take corporate money and soft money out of the capaign finance picture--but don't pretend that the administration was wrong in giving instructions to the people that work for it.


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16 Sep 2011, 5:51 pm

visagrunt wrote:

Quote:
2) The General is briefing Congress as a part of the Executive Branch of government. The executive branch speaks with one voice.


Quote:
3) The President is the General's CINC. The General has an important role in briefing the chain of command, and dissent is an important part of that process--but once the President has made the call, then it becomes the government's responsibility to adhere to that policy (and the military no less so).


Asking/telling someone to lie is wrong, especially when putting someone on the spot like that where they would be expected to compromise their integrity and trust as an officer.
It's about this administration's lack of principal and the fact that Lord Obama hasn't a clue about the value of honor and/or integrity.

Call it a cheap shot but if this were during the Bush administration you'd have a different outlook I'm sure. :roll:



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16 Sep 2011, 6:23 pm

Raptor wrote:
Asking/telling someone to lie is wrong, especially when putting someone on the spot like that where they would be expected to compromise their integrity and trust as an officer.
It's about this administration's lack of principal and the fact that Lord Obama hasn't a clue about the value of honor and/or integrity.

Call it a cheap shot but if this were during the Bush administration you'd have a different outlook I'm sure. :roll:


Which one of these two statements is a lie:

Quote:
the White House asked the general to alter the testimony to add two points: that the general supported the White House policy to add more broadband for commercial use; and that the Pentagon would try to resolve the questions around LightSquared with testing in just 90 days.



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17 Sep 2011, 3:08 pm

visagrunt wrote:
A few home truths:

1) Neither of the insertions sought by the White House appear to me to be false. They may change the tone of the general's message, but that is not the same thing as falsification.

2) The General is briefing Congress as a part of the Executive Branch of government. The executive branch speaks with one voice.

3) The President is the General's CINC. The General has an important role in briefing the chain of command, and dissent is an important part of that process--but once the President has made the call, then it becomes the government's responsibility to adhere to that policy (and the military no less so).

Now, there is certainly a legitimate question about whether the White House was improperly motivated in tailoring the briefing. But in that respect this administration is no different than any other. Administrations from the dawn of time have been mindful of their friends and their opponents, and democratic elections have only served to amplify that. Just as Haliburton benefitted under the previous administration, so too others will benefit under this one. Thus it has ever been.

Now, if you want to get to the root of corruption, then take corporate money and soft money out of the capaign finance picture--but don't pretend that the administration was wrong in giving instructions to the people that work for it.


Your entire post is a load of bull.

This company's product just happens to jam both military and civilian GPS systems alike, I think that is a very good reason not to allow it.



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18 Sep 2011, 4:31 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
Your entire post is a load of bull.

This company's product just happens to jam both military and civilian GPS systems alike, I think that is a very good reason not to allow it.


You might well be right--but that's not the point.

From whom does the general take his orders? He was not told to do something dishonest, improper or illegal. He was ordered to add two statements to his testimony.

And we can be certain that some members of Congress will question the General on the implications of this product, and he will comply with his oath to testify truthfully.


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18 Sep 2011, 5:46 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
Your entire post is a load of bull.

This company's product just happens to jam both military and civilian GPS systems alike, I think that is a very good reason not to allow it.


You might well be right--but that's not the point.

From whom does the general take his orders? He was not told to do something dishonest, improper or illegal. He was ordered to add two statements to his testimony.


Which the General is under oath, giving testimony before congress. I thought you were supposed to know something about law, cause you're essentially saying that trying to get someone to commit perjury is not a crime.

visagrunt wrote:
And we can be certain that some members of Congress will question the General on the implications of this product, and he will comply with his oath to testify truthfully.


They already did, the general is now going to be testifying to another committee about who in the White House was pressuring him, trying to get the general to commit perjury.

Key Facts:
1. This is a national security issue in the fact this company's product Jams, missile guidence systems, Military GPS, and Civilian GPS. Now this may be all well and good in an emergency situation, but not to have this product active 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. I would think knocking out everyone's GPS in the country is a bad thing.

2. The White House tried to get the general to change his testimony to support this company's product, and essentially dictate what he would tell congress while under oath, that is trying to get someone to commit perjury, therefore what the White House did was a felony. Interesting side tidbit, Pat Kaddell on Hannity said that if this had been the Carter Administration, Carter would have thrown whomever pulled a stunt like that in jail.

3. The Company's is tied to Obama via its CEO, and Obama might have stock in said company.



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19 Sep 2011, 12:01 am

Inuyasha wrote:
They already did, the general is now going to be testifying to another committee about who in the White House was pressuring him, trying to get the general to commit perjury.


I don't see how either statement is untrue. As a general he supports whatever his commander in chief tells him to. The 2nd statement is hardly worth getting upset about either.

Quote:
Key Facts:
1. This is a national security issue in the fact this company's product Jams, missile guidence systems, Military GPS, and Civilian GPS. Now this may be all well and good in an emergency situation, but not to have this product active 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. I would think knocking out everyone's GPS in the country is a bad thing.


Your key fact is more of an opinion. It is not yet clear whether their technology can coexist with GPS.

Quote:
2. The White House tried to get the general to change his testimony to support this company's product, and essentially dictate what he would tell congress while under oath, that is trying to get someone to commit perjury, therefore what the White House did was a felony. Interesting side tidbit, Pat Kaddell on Hannity said that if this had been the Carter Administration, Carter would have thrown whomever pulled a stunt like that in jail.


I think you are overstating this quite a bit.

Quote:
3. The Company's is tied to Obama via its CEO, and Obama might have stock in said company.


Conjecture and nothing more.



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19 Sep 2011, 12:03 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
They already did, the general is now going to be testifying to another committee about who in the White House was pressuring him, trying to get the general to commit perjury.


I don't see how either statement is untrue. As a general he supports whatever his commander in chief tells him to. The 2nd statement is hardly worth getting upset about either.

Quote:
Key Facts:
1. This is a national security issue in the fact this company's product Jams, missile guidence systems, Military GPS, and Civilian GPS. Now this may be all well and good in an emergency situation, but not to have this product active 24 hrs a day, 7 days a week. I would think knocking out everyone's GPS in the country is a bad thing.


Your key fact is more of an opinion. It is not yet clear whether their technology can coexist with GPS.

Quote:
2. The White House tried to get the general to change his testimony to support this company's product, and essentially dictate what he would tell congress while under oath, that is trying to get someone to commit perjury, therefore what the White House did was a felony. Interesting side tidbit, Pat Kaddell on Hannity said that if this had been the Carter Administration, Carter would have thrown whomever pulled a stunt like that in jail.


I think you are overstating this quite a bit.

Quote:
3. The Company's is tied to Obama via its CEO, and Obama might have stock in said company.


Conjecture and nothing more.


Seriously, I wish I was overstating this, the scary thing is the fact I'm not.

Space Command, headquartered at Peterson Air Force Base, has been sounding the alarm for months about the $15 billion broadband system proposed by the Virginia firm LightSquared. On Thursday, Space Command’s Gen. William Shelton headed for Capitol Hill armed with the results of a series of tests over the summer.

“In summary, based on test results, the LightSquared network would effectively jam vital GPS receivers,” the general told a gathering of the House Armed Services Committee’s subcommittee on strategic forces.


Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/jam-125 ... z1YN7w2oBF



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19 Sep 2011, 9:32 am

Ultimately who knows where the LightSquared scandal and the other growing scandals will end up, but as I've been reading, it sure is making the Obama administration appear corrupt.

"Cronyism as Usual"

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2011/ ... one-obama/

snippet:

Quote:
So now Obama’s supporters are just settling for the argument that LightSquared’s alleged political pull with the White House is “no different than what everybody else does.” That’s some slide from Obama’s 2008 campaign promise to demolish the influence game in Washington.

It’s not news Obama has broken yet another campaign vow. But the one thing the president had going for him, even with the economic doldrums, was his administration kept its nose fairly clean. He might be viewed as incompetent, or lacking in leadership, but he isn’t seen as corrupt. Solyndra and LightSquared may soon give the White House completely new image problems to worry about.



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19 Sep 2011, 10:51 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Seriously, I wish I was overstating this, the scary thing is the fact I'm not.

Space Command, headquartered at Peterson Air Force Base, has been sounding the alarm for months about the $15 billion broadband system proposed by the Virginia firm LightSquared. On Thursday, Space Command’s Gen. William Shelton headed for Capitol Hill armed with the results of a series of tests over the summer.

“In summary, based on test results, the LightSquared network would effectively jam vital GPS receivers,” the general told a gathering of the House Armed Services Committee’s subcommittee on strategic forces.


Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/jam-125 ... z1YN7w2oBF


Perjury is the declaration of a statement under oath that the declarant knows to be false--where is the false statement that the White House has ordered the general to make?

The White House has not sought to stop the General from stating his findings. It has only sought to add two qualifications: first, that the the Adminstration is seeking greating bandwidth for commercial use and second that work continues to look for means to reconcile the systems.

There is no lie here. There is no suppression here. If the General cannot follow orders in good conscience, the General is free to resign.


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19 Sep 2011, 12:31 pm

visagrunt wrote:
There is no lie here. There is no suppression here. If the General cannot follow orders in good conscience, the General is free to resign.


Inuyasha is just following the training he's been given. If your central argument is weak, re-state the most alarming part of your allegation as loudly as possible, as frequently as possible. I suppose the idea is to lend credence by way of association.

Unfortunately it only really works on dumb people.



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19 Sep 2011, 11:51 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
There is no lie here. There is no suppression here. If the General cannot follow orders in good conscience, the General is free to resign.


Inuyasha is just following the training he's been given. If your central argument is weak, re-state the most alarming part of your allegation as loudly as possible, as frequently as possible. I suppose the idea is to lend credence by way of association.

Unfortunately it only really works on dumb people.


Like the two of you apparently are?

I'm going to break this down so you two can understand just how the White House was trying to get a Four-Star General to lie under oath.

“In summary, based on test results, the LightSquared network would effectively jam vital GPS receivers,” the general told a gathering of the House Armed Services Committee’s subcommittee on strategic forces.

Read more: http://www.gazette.com/articles/jam-125 ... z1YSo6uIIQ

The White House was trying to pressure the general into downplaying the fact that this piece of equipment effectively compromises National Security, because it jams everyone's GPS system in the US, and the White House is trying to pressure a Four Star General to endorse it.

Then we have:
Now the Pentagon has been raising concerns about a new wireless project by a satellite broadband company in Virginia called LightSquared, whose majority owner is an investment fund run by Democratic donor Philip Falcone.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... donor.html

Now getting back to what the General said based on the results of the test:


"For a company that allegedly is ‘wired’ inside the Beltway, we've been unable to even get the House Armed Services Committee to allow us to have one representative today’s hearing — a hearing in which we are the subject,” he said.


Shelton finally gave his testimony Thursday, and made clear the Pentagon's concern about LightSquared's project.


The general told Turner's committee that preliminary tests of a new LightSquared proposal to use only a portion of the band that it was licensed originally in 2004 would cause significant disruptions to GPS.


He said the GPS spectrum was supposed to originally be a “quiet neighborhood,” meaning that lower strength signals could exist near the GPS spectrum. Speaking of the LightSquared plan, he said, “If you put a rock band in the middle of that quiet neighborhood, that’s a different circumstance.”
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... donor.html

To sum this up:
"There was an attempt to influence the text of the testimony and to engage LightSquared in the process in order to bias his testimony,” said Rep. Mike Turner.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... donor.html

He was reporting to congress and was under oath, he is not supposed to parrot the White House talking points, he's supposed to truthfully give the results of the test.

Furthermore I leave you with this:

Melanie Sloan, who runs the nonpartisan ethics groups Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said the emerging allegations about possible White House involvement in LightSquared’s matter seemed to mirror earlier allegations in the Solyndra case.

“With this new set of facts, it starts to sound like a pattern of the White House improperly pressuring people at agencies involving decisions that affect companies tied to donors and fundraisers,” Sloan said. “It’s always a problem when the White House is pressuring anyone’s testimony. I don’t care if you are a four-star [general] or a GS-15 [career employee], you should be giving your true opinion and not an opinion the White House is seeking for political expediency."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... donor.html



blauSamstag
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20 Sep 2011, 1:12 am

Inuyasha wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
There is no lie here. There is no suppression here. If the General cannot follow orders in good conscience, the General is free to resign.


Inuyasha is just following the training he's been given. If your central argument is weak, re-state the most alarming part of your allegation as loudly as possible, as frequently as possible. I suppose the idea is to lend credence by way of association.

Unfortunately it only really works on dumb people.


Like the two of you apparently are?


If it weren't so pathetic, it would be hilarious that you responded to my post by doing precisely what i accused you of doing.

Quote:
Furthermore I leave you with this:

Melanie Sloan, who runs the nonpartisan ethics groups Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington, said the emerging allegations about possible White House involvement in LightSquared’s matter seemed to mirror earlier allegations in the Solyndra case.

“With this new set of facts, it starts to sound like a pattern of the White House improperly pressuring people at agencies involving decisions that affect companies tied to donors and fundraisers,” Sloan said. “It’s always a problem when the White House is pressuring anyone’s testimony. I don’t care if you are a four-star [general] or a GS-15 [career employee], you should be giving your true opinion and not an opinion the White House is seeking for political expediency."

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 ... donor.html


Yeah. Some people say that this was improper, maybe even not nice. But it does not rise to the level of perjury.

There is no scandal here. It's D.C. business as usual, under any administration.