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DarthMetaKnight
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02 Aug 2011, 8:36 pm

Some people think that North Korea is a Marxist dictatorship. Originally North Korea mentioned Karl Marx in it's constitution but it now has no mention of Karl Marx or Marxism in its constitution. If your country has no mention of Karl Marx or Marxism in its constitution then it isn't Marxist says I.

Some people think that North Korea is left-wing but North Korea promotes racism and tells its citizens to prepare for war. If your country is racist and obsessed with war then it isn't left-wing says I.

http://www.slate.com/id/2243112/

Also, North Koreans have something better than Chuck Norris facts - Kim Jong Il facts.
http://listverse.com/2010/05/30/top-10-crazy-facts-about-kim-jong-il/


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Tequila
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02 Aug 2011, 8:39 pm

Absolute rubbish.

Tell me, how much scope is there for private enterprise in North Korea? Or personal or political freedom?

By your definition, the likes of Zanu-PF aren't left-wing then?



ale
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02 Aug 2011, 9:13 pm

North Korea is an extremely conservative country, with a more than awful wealth distribution, if that counts as left-wing, then the US is left-communist
[sarcasm]Examples of how "lefty" the DPRK is: [/sarcasm]
It has a huge army, 20% of its adult male population as regulars, which is under Songun the main priority of the nation (and in its budget), prepared for a war which ended more than half a century ago, just *as* the Paris Commune
Extremely socially conservative policies
The opposite of workers' democracy, staged elections with no secrecy on who your vote goes to and actual decisions being taken by a Politburo-ish government organ (less fair than other awful electoral systems as those of Iran, Central Asia, the most backward countries in Eastern Europe or subsaharan Africa
The Kims and the high government officials have a lifestyle that a lot of western millionaires would die for



AceOfSpades
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02 Aug 2011, 9:57 pm

So up is down?



Philologos
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02 Aug 2011, 10:04 pm

Definitions, definitions.

If you have a heavy-handed state under the heel od Powervolk ideology is irrelevant. Iddeology is important to the Socializers who set parties up ready to be weapons in Powervolk hands.

When you reach a certain point, all you need to know is Big Brother's dictum, L'État, c'est moi"



blunnet
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02 Aug 2011, 10:29 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
So up is down?

Depends on your frame of reference.



jrjones9933
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02 Aug 2011, 10:32 pm

Under totalitarianism, there is only one wing.


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John_Browning
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02 Aug 2011, 10:46 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Some people think that North Korea is a Marxist dictatorship. Originally North Korea mentioned Karl Marx in it's constitution but it now has no mention of Karl Marx or Marxism in its constitution. If your country has no mention of Karl Marx or Marxism in its constitution then it isn't Marxist says I.

Some people think that North Korea is left-wing but North Korea promotes racism and tells its citizens to prepare for war. If your country is racist and obsessed with war then it isn't left-wing says I.

http://www.slate.com/id/2243112/

Also, North Koreans have something better than Chuck Norris facts - Kim Jong Il facts.
http://listverse.com/2010/05/30/top-10-crazy-facts-about-kim-jong-il/

Traditional communism is about spreading communism by force, and a form of supremacism tends to be common in both communist, democracies, and monarchies in east Asia. They are definitely left wing, but due to massive cultural differences it's going to look different than Americans, Canadians, and western Europeans think of far left wing politics.


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AstroGeek
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02 Aug 2011, 10:56 pm

jrjones9933 wrote:
Under totalitarianism, there is only one wing.

That's a good way to put it. Under a dictatorship left and right wing are very hard to distinguish. If North Korea can be called economically left wing (although that implies socialism and democratic control of resources, whereas North Korea is more along the lines of state capitalism) it can still be socially to the right. Trotsky would have called it a degenerate worker's state--it is supposedly left wing and a utopia, but really isn't either.



Tim_Tex
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03 Aug 2011, 11:57 am

Actually North Korea replaced Marxism with Juche, which was Kim il Sung's idea of self-reliance.

In reality, North Korea's regime is just a ploy to elevate Kim il Sung, Kim Jong Il, and Kim Jong Un (the next in line) to demigod status.

Albania tried something similar under Enver Hoxha's regime. He took credit for things already credited by others. (Hoxha's theory of relativity, anyone?) He tried to become self-reliant after the Soviet Union and China became "revisionist" (after de-Stalinization and the death of Mao Tse-Tung, respectively). Any contact with the outside world was forbidden, religion was banned, and life was centered around his paranoia.



blauSamstag
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03 Aug 2011, 12:33 pm

Basically, the DPRK was set up by people who liked the sound of communism but who had no frame of reference other than pre-war, imperial japan.

Which is the system of government they most closely resemble.



AceOfSpades
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03 Aug 2011, 12:41 pm

blunnet wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
So up is down?

Depends on your frame of reference.
Well gravity hasn't pulled me towards the sky yet so it's safe to assume down is towards the ground :P.



visagrunt
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03 Aug 2011, 1:43 pm

Tequila wrote:
Absolute rubbish.

Tell me, how much scope is there for private enterprise in North Korea? Or personal or political freedom?

By your definition, the likes of Zanu-PF aren't left-wing then?


What is rubbish is the notion that regimes can be readily classified into a simplified spectrum of left-right.

Personal and political freedom are liberal ideologies. The notions that gave rise to the US Declaration of Independence and the Déclaration des droits de l'homme et du citoyen are rooted in classical liberalism, and the left wing of the political spectrum of the time.

The truth is that political structures are measured on a wide range of scales, and the old "left-right" paradigm is obsolete.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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03 Aug 2011, 2:33 pm

Quote:
North Korea is not Left-Wing


It's typically a radical left-Wing regime where the leftist ideology is implied by force and by one-leader and one-party. They're not mentioning Marx , so what? they've replaced his name with another, leaders in leftist countries are typically worshiped as gods, it still and leftist dictatorship.


They are Left economically, politically and right socially (due to their Asian culture).



ruveyn
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03 Aug 2011, 3:21 pm

Tequila wrote:
Absolute rubbish.

Tell me, how much scope is there for private enterprise in North Korea? Or personal or political freedom?

By your definition, the likes of Zanu-PF aren't left-wing then?


North Korea is a Brute Force regime, simpliciter. Fearless Leader gets the food and the women. The rest starve or live on whatever crumbs fall of Fearless Leader's table.

ruveyn



Tequila
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03 Aug 2011, 3:23 pm

ruveyn wrote:
North Korea is a Brute Force regime, simpliciter. Fearless Leader gets the food and the women. The rest starve or live on whatever crumbs fall of Fearless Leader's table.


That's a fair enough statement. And of Zimbabwe, et al?

I think it was Godfrey Bloom of UKIP who referred to Mugabe as a baboon. Baboon is right.