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femme
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31 Oct 2011, 6:10 pm

In an effort to explain inconsistencies in the Old Testament, there developed in Jewish literature a complex interpretive system called the midrash which attempts to reconcile biblical contradictions and bring new meaning to the scriptural text.

Employing both a philological method and often an ingenious imagination, midrashic writings, which reached their height in the 2nd century CE, influenced later Christian interpretations of the Bible. Inconsistencies in the story of Genesis, especially the two separate accounts of creation, received particular attention. Later, beginning in the 13th century CE, such questions were also taken up in Jewish mystical literature known as the Kabbalah.

According to midrashic literature, Adam's first wife was not Eve but a woman named Lilith, who was created in the first Genesis account. Only when Lilith rebelled and abandoned Adam did God create Eve, in the second account, as a replacement. In an important 13th century Kabbalah text, the Sefer ha-Zohar ("The Book of Splendour") written by the Spaniard Moses de Leon (c. 1240-1305), it is explained that:


At the same time Jehovah created Adam, he created a woman, Lilith, who like Adam was taken from the earth. She was given to Adam as his wife. But there was a dispute between them about a matter that when it came before the judges had to be discussed behind closed doors. She spoke the unspeakable name of Jehovah and vanished.
In the Alpha Betha of Ben Sira (Alphabetum Siracidis, or Sepher Ben Sira), an anonymous collection of midrashic proverbs probably compiled in the 11th century C.E., it is explained more explicitly that the conflict arose because Adam, as a way of asserting his authority over Lilith, insisted that she lie beneath him during sexual intercourse (23 A-B). Lilith, however, considering herself to be Adam's equal, refused, and after pronouncing the Ineffable Name (i.e. the magic name of God) flew off into the air.

Adam, distraught and no doubt also angered by her insolent behaviour, wanted her back. On Adam's request, God sent three angels, named Senoy, Sansenoy, and Semangelof, who found her in the Red Sea. Despite the threat from the three angels that if she didn't return to Adam one hundred of her sons would die every day, she refused, claiming that she was created expressly to harm newborn infants. However, she did swear that she would not harm any infant wearing an amulet with the images and/or names of the three angels on it.

At this point, the legend of Lilith as the "first Eve" merges with the earlier legend of Sumero-Babylonian origin, dating from around 3,500 BCE, of Lilith as a winged female demon who kills infants and endangers women in childbirth. In this role, she was one of several mazakim or "harmful spirits" known from incantation formulas preserved in Assyrian, Hebrew, and Canaanite inscriptions intended to protect against them. As a female demon, she is closely related to Lamashtu whose evilness included killing children, drinking the blood of men, and eating their flesh. Lamashtu also caused pregnant women to miscarry, disturbed sleep and brought nightmares.

In turn, Lamashtu is like another demonized female called Lamia, a Libyan serpent goddess, whose name is probably a Greek variant of Lamashtu. Like Lamashtu, Lamia also killed children. In the guise of a beautiful woman, she also seduced young men. In the Latin Vulgate Bible, Lamia is given as the translation of the Hebrew Lilith (and in other translations it is given as "screech owl" and "night monster").

It needs to be remembered that these demonic "women" are essentially personifications of unseen forces invented to account for otherwise inexplicable events and phenomena which occur in the real world. Lilith, Lamashtu, Lamia and other female demons like them are all associated with the death of children and especially with the death of newborn infants.

It may be easily imagined that they were held accountable for such things as Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS, also called crib death, or cot death) where an apparently healthy infant dies for no obvious reason. Cot death occurs almost always during sleep at night and is the most common cause of death of infants. Its cause still remains unknown.

By inventing evil spirits like Lilith, Lamashtu, and Lamia, parents were not only able to identify the enemy but also to know what they had to guard against. Amulets with the names of the three angels were intended to protect against the power of Lilith.

Lilith also personified licentiousness and lust. In the Christian Middle Ages she, or her female offspring, the lilim, became identified with succubae (the female counterparts of incubi) who would copulate with men in their sleep, causing them to have nocturnal emissions or "wet dreams."

Again, Lilith and her kind serve as a way of accounting for an otherwise inexplicable phenomenon among men. Today, 85 percent of all men experience "wet dreams" (the ejaculation of sperm while asleep) at some time in their lives, mostly during their teens and twenties and as often as once a month. In the Middle Ages, celibate monks would attempt to guard against these nocturnal visits by the lilith/succubus by sleeping with their hands crossed over their genitals and holding a crucifix.

Through the literature of the Kabbalah, Lilith became fixed in Jewish demonology where her primary role is that of strangler of children and a seducer of men. The Kabbalah further enhanced her demonic character by making her the partner of Samael (i.e. Satan) and queen of the realm of the forces of evil.

In this guise, she appears as the antagonistic negative counterpart of the Shekhinah ("Divine Presence"), the mother of the House of Israel. The Zohar repeatedly contrasts Lilith the unholy whorish woman with the Shekhinah as the holy, noble, and capable woman. In much the same way, Eve the disobedient, lustful sinner is contrasted with the obedient and holy Virgin Mary in Christian literature.

Through her couplings with the devil (or with Adam, as his succubus), Lilith gave birth to one hundred demonic children a day (the one hundred children threatened with death by the three angels). In this way, Lilith was held responsible for populating the world with evil.

If you ask how Lilith herself, the first wife of Adam, became evil, the answer lies in her insubordination to her husband Adam. It is her independence from Adam, her position beyond the control of a male, that makes her "evil."

She is disobedient and like Eve, and indeed all women who are willful, she is perceived as posing a constant threat to the divinely ordered state of affairs defined by men.

Lilith is represented as a powerfully sexual woman against whom men and babies felt they had few defenses and, except for a few amulets, little protection. Much more so than Eve, Lilith is the personification female sexuality.

Her legend serves to demonstrate how, when unchecked, female sexuality is disruptive and destructive. Lilith highlights how women, beginning with Eve, use their sexuality to seduce men. She provides thereby a necessary sexual dimension, which is otherwise lacking, to the Genesis story which, when read in literal terms, portrays Eve not as some wicked femme fatale but as a naive and largely sexless fool. Only as a Lilith-like character could Eve be seen as a calculating, evil, seductress.

Lilith is referred to only once in the Old Testament. In the Darby translation of Isaiah 34:14 the original Hebrew word is rendered as "lilith"; according to Isaiah, when God's vengeance has turned the land into a wilderness, "there shall the beasts of the desert meet with the jackals, and the wild goat shall cry to his fellow; the lilith also shall settle there, and find for herself a place of rest." The same word is translated elsewhere, however, as "screech owl, "night creatures," "night monsters," and "night hag."

Although it has been suggested that the association with night stems from a similarity between the Sumero-Babylonian demon Lilitu and the Hebrew word laylah meaning "night," Lilith nonetheless seems to have been otherwise associated with darkness and night as a time of fear, vulnerability, and evil.

In her demonized form, Lilith is a frightening and threatening creature. Much more so than Eve, she personifies the real (sexual) power women exercise over men.

She represents the deeper, darker fear men have of women and female sexuality. Inasmuch as female sexuality, as a result of this fear, has been repressed and subjected to the severest controls in Western patriarchal society, so too has the figure of Lilith been kept hidden.

However, she lurks as a powerful unidentified presence, an unspoken name, in the minds of biblical commentators for whom Eve and Lilith become inextricably intertwined and blended into one person. Importantly, it is this Eve/Lilith amalgam which is used to identify women as the true source of evil in the world.

In the Apocryphal Testament of Reuben (one of the Testaments of the Twelve Patriarchs, ostensibly the twelve sons of Jacob), for example, it is explained that:


Women are evil, my children: because they have no power or strength to stand up against man, they use wiles and try to ensnare him by their charms; and man, whom woman cannot subdue by strength, she subdues by guile.
(Testament of Reuben: V, 1-2, 5)
References to Lilith in the Talmud describe her as a night demon with long hair (B. Erubin 100b) and as having a human likeness but with wings (B. Nidda 24b). In Rabbi Isaac ben Jacob ha-Kohen's "Treatise on the Emanations on the Left," written in Spain in the 13th century, she is described as having the form of a beautiful woman from her head to her waist, and "burning fire" from her waist down. Elsewhere, Rabbi Isaac equates her with the primordial serpent Leviathan.


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31 Oct 2011, 6:25 pm

So we turn from a man with serious frustration towards women with a woman trying to snub at all the men on this forum for being blinded from their inherent fear of women despite the fact that most of them took potshots at mr boingo-boingo-crazy because they know very well that noone should give a rat's ass about gender outside of the right circumstances.

Hate to break it to you lady but I am not of the Jewish persuasion and I don't care about some ancient NT fantasy about opressing women as god's work and I am most certainly not ignorant of some power women have over me.

You can be as powerfully sexual as you want and as liberated as you want. Don't just start making weird claims about how we fear or indeed care about the sexual powers of women. If all women were so intent as wanting to say that men feared or cared about them like you do I could easily decide to never to have sex anymore. To be honest conspiracy theorists are a turn off. Egoistic conspiracy theorists more so.



femme
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31 Oct 2011, 6:30 pm

Gedrene wrote:
So we turn from a man with serious frustration towards women with a woman trying to snub at all the men on this forum for being blinded from their inherent fear of women despite the fact that most of them took potshots at mr boingo-boingo-crazy because they know very well that noone should give a rat's ass about gender outside of the right circumstances.

Hate to break it to you lady but I am not of the Jewish persuasion and I don't care about some ancient NT fantasy about opressing women as god's work and I am most certainly not ignorant of some power women have over me.

You can be as powerfully sexual as you want and as liberated as you want. Don't just start making weird claims about how we fear or indeed care about the sexual powers of women. If all women were so intent as wanting to say that men feared or cared about them like you do I could easily decide to never to have sex anymore. To be honest conspiracy theorists are a turn off. Egoistic conspiracy theorists more so.


It was not a attempt to hate on men but share the history of Lilith as the symbol for Feminism and I am Jewish I am sorry you took it that way you sound just like my girlfriend and my brother btw you may know him as Joker. :wink:


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31 Oct 2011, 6:33 pm

My interest in Lilith only extends to her potrayel in art and literature as a dominant woman who is shunned by men, but I don't take her or anything else in mythology seriously. Men and women may be different but they both deserve respect for the roles they play in producing offspring and building families. I don't believe either gender is more dominant, though I admit for a long time men had women convinced that they were inferior which was pretty unfair.



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31 Oct 2011, 6:33 pm

Wait...how is Lilith a symbol for feminism? At most Lilith is a symbol of the disdain for women felt by the authors of the texts.


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31 Oct 2011, 6:35 pm

Lecks wrote:
Wait...how is Lilith a symbol for feminism? At most Lilith is a symbol of the disdain for women felt by the authors of the texts.


Because Lilith refused to be obidient to Adam and forced to be obsevient to him because he was a man.


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31 Oct 2011, 6:37 pm

femme wrote:
Lecks wrote:
Wait...how is Lilith a symbol for feminism? At most Lilith is a symbol of the disdain for women felt by the authors of the texts.


Because Lilith refused to be obidient to Adam and forced to be obsevient to him because he was a man.

And then served as a cautionary tale when Yahweh punished her. If you see Lilith as a feminist paragon then you're completely skipping over the religious aspects of her story.


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31 Oct 2011, 6:38 pm

femme wrote:
Lecks wrote:
Wait...how is Lilith a symbol for feminism? At most Lilith is a symbol of the disdain for women felt by the authors of the texts.


Because Lilith refused to be obidient to Adam and forced to be obsevient to him because he was a man.

I could make some jocular comment about adam being in to bigamy and lilith being a storm demon but to be honest this doesn't really matter. Also I think you mean subservient. Just saying. But enough details! From what I can tell lilith is just a storm demon who was female and told yahweh to spin on it.



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31 Oct 2011, 6:39 pm

Lecks wrote:
femme wrote:
Lecks wrote:
Wait...how is Lilith a symbol for feminism? At most Lilith is a symbol of the disdain for women felt by the authors of the texts.


Because Lilith refused to be obidient to Adam and forced to be obsevient to him because he was a man.


And then served as a cautionary tale when Yahweh punished her. If you see Lilith as a feminist paragon then you're completely skipping over the religious aspects of her story.


Their are diffrent religious views on Lilith which ones are you referring to :?:


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31 Oct 2011, 6:41 pm

femme wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
So we turn from a man with serious frustration towards women with a woman trying to snub at all the men on this forum for being blinded from their inherent fear of women despite the fact that most of them took potshots at mr boingo-boingo-crazy because they know very well that noone should give a rat's ass about gender outside of the right circumstances.

Hate to break it to you lady but I am not of the Jewish persuasion and I don't care about some ancient NT fantasy about opressing women as god's work and I am most certainly not ignorant of some power women have over me.

You can be as powerfully sexual as you want and as liberated as you want. Don't just start making weird claims about how we fear or indeed care about the sexual powers of women. If all women were so intent as wanting to say that men feared or cared about them like you do I could easily decide to never to have sex anymore. To be honest conspiracy theorists are a turn off. Egoistic conspiracy theorists more so.


It was not a attempt to hate on men but share the history of Lilith as the symbol for Feminism and I am Jewish I am sorry you took it that way you sound just like my girlfriend and my brother btw you may know him as Joker. :wink:

To be honest it's because they're true. You're harping on men at times the same way as that guy was doing on his videos. Tunnel vision madam is making you make various inferences about men that are somewhat condescending. Why is already stated above.



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31 Oct 2011, 6:44 pm

Gedrene wrote:
femme wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
So we turn from a man with serious frustration towards women with a woman trying to snub at all the men on this forum for being blinded from their inherent fear of women despite the fact that most of them took potshots at mr boingo-boingo-crazy because they know very well that noone should give a rat's ass about gender outside of the right circumstances.

Hate to break it to you lady but I am not of the Jewish persuasion and I don't care about some ancient NT fantasy about opressing women as god's work and I am most certainly not ignorant of some power women have over me.

You can be as powerfully sexual as you want and as liberated as you want. Don't just start making weird claims about how we fear or indeed care about the sexual powers of women. If all women were so intent as wanting to say that men feared or cared about them like you do I could easily decide to never to have sex anymore. To be honest conspiracy theorists are a turn off. Egoistic conspiracy theorists more so.


It was not a attempt to hate on men but share the history of Lilith as the symbol for Feminism and I am Jewish I am sorry you took it that way you sound just like my girlfriend and my brother btw you may know him as Joker. :wink:


To be honest it's because they're true. You're harping on men at times the same way as that guy was doing on his videos. Tunnel vision madam is making you make various inferences about men that are somewhat condescending. Why is already stated above.


Harping on men is not what I was doing just giving a history of Lilith and Eve and I am not trying to be condescending but the men dominate the political page it would be nice if more women where on this page.


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31 Oct 2011, 6:48 pm

femme wrote:
Lecks wrote:
femme wrote:
Lecks wrote:
Wait...how is Lilith a symbol for feminism? At most Lilith is a symbol of the disdain for women felt by the authors of the texts.


Because Lilith refused to be obidient to Adam and forced to be obsevient to him because he was a man.


And then served as a cautionary tale when Yahweh punished her. If you see Lilith as a feminist paragon then you're completely skipping over the religious aspects of her story.


Their are diffrent religious views on Lilith which ones are you referring to :?:

How about the part where she kills infants and is the direct cause of labour pains? Doesn't seem very feminist to me.


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31 Oct 2011, 6:49 pm

Lecks wrote:
femme wrote:
Lecks wrote:
femme wrote:
Lecks wrote:
Wait...how is Lilith a symbol for feminism? At most Lilith is a symbol of the disdain for women felt by the authors of the texts.


Because Lilith refused to be obidient to Adam and forced to be obsevient to him because he was a man.


And then served as a cautionary tale when Yahweh punished her. If you see Lilith as a feminist paragon then you're completely skipping over the religious aspects of her story.


Their are diffrent religious views on Lilith which ones are you referring to :?:

How about the part where she kills infants and is the direct cause of labour pains? Doesn't seem very feminist to me.


To prevent the three angels from drowning her in the Red Sea, Lilith swears in the name of God that she will not harm any infant who wears an amulet bearing her name. Ironically, by forging an agreement with God and the angels, Lilith demonstrates that she is not totally separated from the divine.


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31 Oct 2011, 6:52 pm

femme wrote:
To prevent the three angels from drowning her in the Red Sea, Lilith swears in the name of God that she will not harm any infant who wears an amulet bearing her name. Ironically, by forging an agreement with God and the angels, Lilith demonstrates that she is not totally separated from the divine.

Meanwhile every infant whose parents are not privvy to this agreement is thereby outside of Yahweh's protection and at the mercy of Lilith.


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31 Oct 2011, 6:54 pm

femme wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
femme wrote:
Gedrene wrote:
So we turn from a man with serious frustration towards women with a woman trying to snub at all the men on this forum for being blinded from their inherent fear of women despite the fact that most of them took potshots at mr boingo-boingo-crazy because they know very well that noone should give a rat's ass about gender outside of the right circumstances.

Hate to break it to you lady but I am not of the Jewish persuasion and I don't care about some ancient NT fantasy about opressing women as god's work and I am most certainly not ignorant of some power women have over me.

You can be as powerfully sexual as you want and as liberated as you want. Don't just start making weird claims about how we fear or indeed care about the sexual powers of women. If all women were so intent as wanting to say that men feared or cared about them like you do I could easily decide to never to have sex anymore. To be honest conspiracy theorists are a turn off. Egoistic conspiracy theorists more so.


It was not a attempt to hate on men but share the history of Lilith as the symbol for Feminism and I am Jewish I am sorry you took it that way you sound just like my girlfriend and my brother btw you may know him as Joker. :wink:


To be honest it's because they're true. You're harping on men at times the same way as that guy was doing on his videos. Tunnel vision madam is making you make various inferences about men that are somewhat condescending. Why is already stated above.


Harping on men is not what I was doing just giving a history of Lilith and Eve and I am not trying to be condescending but the men dominate the political page it would be nice if more women where on this page.

It would be great yes, but us autistic men here don't exactly make it a negative anti-female. Look at hyperlexian's comments. She rightly pointed out that all autistic men on this forum banded together to say what was true: That this guy was completely hysterical, frustrated and probably had a point but was buried under crazy and misogynistic comments.

Also I should get a bit shirty, and rightly so, when a woman says that women have some special power over men. I feel like Mary Woolstonecraft getting annoyed about Men being patronising with their false chivalry in the Rights of Women.

Thanks for at least confirming your position at least. But please understand that I am not afraid of you due to some sexual power I feel you might have, because you don't. Nearly all of us on this forum cannot be any more supportive of gender equality and we sure do like to sock it to sexists. Given how sexist NTs can be regularly you're lucky that the lilypad guy did the worst.



femme
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31 Oct 2011, 6:55 pm

Lecks wrote:
femme wrote:
To prevent the three angels from drowning her in the Red Sea, Lilith swears in the name of God that she will not harm any infant who wears an amulet bearing her name. Ironically, by forging an agreement with God and the angels, Lilith demonstrates that she is not totally separated from the divine.


Meanwhile every infant whose parents are not privvy to this agreement is thereby outside of Yahweh's protection and at the mercy of Lilith.


Your good but did you know?

Lilith’s relationship with Adam is a different matter. Their conflict is one of patriarchal authority versus matriarchal desire for emancipation, and the warring couple cannot reconcile. They represent the archetypal battle of the sexes. Neither attempts to solve their dispute or to reach some kind of compromise where they take turns being on top (literally and figuratively). Man cannot cope with woman’s desire for freedom, and woman will settle for nothing less. In the end, they both lose.


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