Who will you vote for in the 42nd Canadian Federal Election?

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Which political party will you vote for in the next Canadian federal election.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/42nd_Canad ... l_election

And, no, I'm not making a statement by placing the BQ so low on the list. I just forgot about them until I saw the "Western Block Party" on a list of sixth-tier parties registered with elections Canada.

I wish we had a Direct Transferable Vote system. My first choice would probably be NDP, unless they change their tune in the near future. Second would be Liberals, unless they have a better platform than the NDP. Third would probably be the Marijuana Party of Canada, because I dislike all the other parties, and they are pretty harmless. The BQ deserves to be on the bottom of that list, filthy bigots

Give some particularly egregious examples for all the non-Quebecois on this forum.

What's bigoted about standing up for the interests of the people who elected you? Too many people in English Canada seem to forget that for almost 20 years the Bloc Québecois MPs were elected by people in constituencies that count just as much as any other.

Is it bigotry for the NDP to stand up for organized labour? Is it bigotry for the NDP to be the new voice of Québec nationalism? No--because these are the interests of the voters who put these MPs in Ottawa.

If you are looking for filthy bigotry, look in the mirror.

I think what Vigilans (who is a Montreal Anglophone) was getting at is that the nationalism of the Bloc has a striking ethnic or racial undertone to it. After all, last election the Bloc leader said that multiculturalism wouldn't work in Quebec, there was that one BQ candidate who made comments about Romeo Saganash's electibility as an aboriginal man, and there was that seperatist who blamed "ethnic votes" for the failure of the Referendum.

I was born and raised as an anglo in Montréal. My first clear memories as a child are being evacuated from our home during the October Crisis. My education was subjected, in turn, to Bill 22, Bill 1 and Bill 101. I witnessed, first hand, the disappearance of the apostrophes and the exodus to Mississauga (Montreal West). My father was an airline pilot during the gens de l'air episodes. I don't live and work in Québec primarily because I don't have a francophone surname.

But notwithstanding these experiences, I maintain my support for the legitimate political expression of Québec nationalism (as opposed to the FLQ's illegitimate political expression).

How many anglophones outside of Québec loudly proclaim that bilingualism doesn't work, or doesn't matter? How many anglophone Canadians have First Nations in their political gunsights, ready to proclaim all chiefs and councils as corrupt? Québec nationalists do not have the intellectual property rights to prejudice.

visagrunt, you don't live here, and the time you did, anglos were a much larger proportion of the population, and weren't quite treated as second class citizens. Your experience is outdated and irrelevant, I'm afraid. You have obviously never been physically assaulted because of your language, refused service, gone to a hospital and had people refuse to speak English to you when your life is threatened, or heard the kind of BS that Quebecois supremacists have to say about anglos here. Quebec nationalism is profoundly ignorant, just like all nationalist movements. The BQ and PQ propagate false information and are masters of revisionist history. As a frequent tutor I have seen the kind of things they want taught in French & English classrooms, including false versions of the October Crisis that paint the FLQ as heroes, and that Pierre Laporte commited suicide. We all know he was murdered in cold blood by those bastards. Paul Rose (one of the FLQ terrorists) is held up on a pedestal by these people, walks the streets of Montreal a free man, and has been invited to speak at Francophone universities on occasion. Unfortunately lots of Quebecois supremacists now believe the BQ-PQ supported history. The fact that you admit you don't live and work in Quebec because of your non-francophone surname says it all, and really destroys your previous argument claiming that the BQ represent "Quebecois interests". Why do you think the BQ was ejected? People are tired of their corruption and bigotry. I recommend you read about Pauline Marois, or other BQ-PQ politicians. I love the French culture here, almost all of my friends are of Quebecois background- but not a one is a Quebecois supremacist. They hate the supremacists. The only interests the BQ look out for are their own. They are selfish liars, hateful people. They take advantage of the Quebecois. Simultaneously spitting in the face of the rest of the country. Calling me a bigot for hating them is like calling a black guy in the 1960's a bigot for hating the US government for its segregation because the government is just "looking out for the interests of white people". I like and respect you, but I really don't appreciate that comment

I most certainly have been assaulted due to my native language. I have not been refused service largely because I have never insisted upon receiving service in English in Québec. And I have had the good fortune never to be hospitalized in a life-threatening situation. And yes, I have heard the BS that Québecois supremacists say--just as I have heard the BS that anglo supremacists spout in the rest of the country.

But we live in a Parliamentary democracy, and neither ignorance nor lying are bars to participation in the political process. But what interest do we serve by descending to the level of the ignorant in offerring comment on their political choices?



And I again I return to the theme of Parliamentary democracy. Why is Paul Rose out on the streets? Because the National Parole Board granted his parole after the Duchaine Report found that he was not present at Laporte's murder (the crime of which he was--and remains--convicted).

No one emerged from the October Crisis with clean hands. The RCMP's conduct was so egregious that CSIS had to be created to take over their intelligence gathering activities. Governments in both Ottawa and Québec made use of the pretext to engage in activities that would not otherwise have been tolerated in a democratic society. Does that excuse the FLQ? Of course not. Does that justify revisionism? Well, the truth of matters likely lies (as it so often does) somewhere in between the accounts narrated by the relevant antagonists and their supporters.



I take the electoral failure of the BQ as a profound demonstration of the resiliancy of Canada's democracy. Voters are not, perhaps, so ignorant as we would like to believe, and when confronted by extremism will amend their views. But that does not mean that their previously expressed views were necessarily wrong.

So none of your Québecois friends can stand the supremacists--all well and good. But then who was voting for the BQ? Someone, somewhere was obviously doing so, and the electoral opinions of those voters should not be summarily dismissed. Ignorant they may be--but they are no less valid votes than yours. Yes, there is extremism among Québec nationalists--I would be the last person to deny that. But we live in a functioning Parliamentary democracy (which is one of the reasons that Paul Rose is on the streets) and ignorance is not a bar to participation.

Don't get me wrong--I am no fan of Québec nationalism. I believe it to be overwhelmingly racist, economically infantile and fundamentally distorting to the fabric of Confederation. But I do not allow my own political view to stand in the place of another voter's. For better or for worse, the sentiments of a plurality of voters in roughly 50 ridings put BQ MPs in Ottawa and those 50 MPs spoke with precisely the same authority as their peers. Dismissing them only serves to entrench the sentiments that elected them in the first place.

As for my levelling the reference at you, I stand by it. I would never suggest to you that your bigotry is unfounded, or unreasonable--but bigotry it is, nonetheless. The use of the epithet, "filthy," simply serves to reinforce it. The circumstance of anglophones in Québec is not, I suggest, comparable to that of blacks in the South during the 60`s. I didn't buy the analogy when Pierre Vallières tried it on for size, and I don't buy it from you, either.

I have never demanded service in English as I speak and understand French well. I mean, refused service simply by virtue of my language (I speak French with an accent that is easily recognizable). This has happened to me and other anglos I know on many occasions. I'm sure there are anglos who are insistent on this but I am not one of them

Anglo supremacists elsewhere are not my concern (thankfully) but like I said I don't like any supremacists whatsoever. And I do not consider it ignorant to criticize people for choosing the Bloc. We live in a parliamentary democracy, yes, and I am free to express my opinion that has quite a bit of basis in reality that the Bloc is the party of ignorance, and that it is more of a detriment to Quebecois than it is beneficial. Think about the types of bills they and the PQ (I almost do not differentiate...) want to have in schools, where even French people cannot choose to have their children go to English schools- I have met separatists who find this extremely offensive and invasive, in addition to being totally unnecessary and frankly based in the bigoted world views of people like Pauline Marois, who complains when she hears English being spoken on the streets of Montreal



Afaic, he should be exiled from our country. I consider it incredibly shameful that he is allowed to live here. We are sometimes too forgiving



There are certainly a lot of relevant criticisms that can be leveled at the War Measures Act. Though when it comes to the revisionism I speak of, I'm sorry to mention that a lot of it actually comes from a pro-FLQ film (a highly fictionalized account) made in the 1980s whose message has made it into classrooms. I cannot recall the name of this film right now, it may be called Octobre; when I recall I'll post it. Nothing wrong with making inaccurate historical films (generally an accurate one is the exception to the rule) but it is wrong to teach the content of a fictionalized account as historical fact in a classroom setting



Well, is the French language threatened in Quebec? That is basically what the BQ likes to portray. Or that the Federal government is unfair to them (despite the money this province gets, probably more than any other province, simply to appease them; I almost consider it to be Quebec holding Ottawa hostage). My experiences here, the French people I know who are well informed, all lead me to the conclusion that French is *not* threatened, and that the bills as they stand are outdated and unnecessary. I mean, the Language Police? I hate those guys. I've had to deal with them before. And by deal, I mean, am "not spoken to directly, but to my boss, not looked at, or acknowledged as a Human being, even when I raise an issue with what they are saying". Its a horrible feeling to be dehumanized like that



Mostly the rest of Quebec, basically the only reason the friends I have are anti-BQ is probably because, like me, they grew up in the mixed-language West Island of Montreal, and took the time to get to know anglos, and spend little time reading the propaganda machine Vigile.net that so many supremacists proscribe to. You're right, everyone is entitled to their opinions. But only facts matter. An opinion not based on fact is not of equal value to one that is



Its unfortunate that the view that the Bloc is an irrelevant thorn in Canada's side leads to that conclusion. But they do not really look out for the interests of the Quebecois. They have their supremacist ideology, and they are certainly capable of making an honest point here or there, but overall I feel they are really just playing on the fears and prejudices of people. Like most political parties, really, though few openly campaign with clearly undignified bills that limit the rights of individuals to express themselves or their business in their native tongue. There are English signs in France, after all. Whats up with that?



Would you feel the same way if I referred to the Nazi Party as "Filthy bigots"? Obviously the PQ/BQ are not anywhere near that level or even politically aligned with that (not trying to violate Godwin's Law here) but I prefer to call it as it is and not as it aught to be. I consider their actions against anglos and Quebecois extremely offensive and deserving of the term "filthy". I once had the "pleasure" of meeting Pauline Marois who turned her nose up at me and refused to shake my hand despite me speaking French to her and giving her a winning smile (I was honestly happy to meet a well known politician, even if I didn't agree with her views)

Also, my point wasn't that the situations are analogous between anglos and southern blacks from the segregation era (they aren't, though there is a feeling of segregation here) but that it makes as much sense to call an Anglo criticizing the Bloc a bigot as it would for one of those blacks to be called a bigot for hating the hand they were dealt. I hadn't realized that someone has actually tried to make a comparison. That is certainly untrue and does a disservice to southern Blacks who had it way harder than us

The problem comes when one starts to tar everyone with the same brush.

There is no question that most Nazis were bigots. Some of them were genocidal megalomaniacs and most of the rest were content to follow. But are they all tainted with the crimes of their leaders? Clearly "just following orders" doesn't excuse pushing people into an oven. But there's nothing criminal about a fortress mentality that sees your language and culture threatened or supporting sledgehammer style policies to overcome that.

Pauline Marois is a bigot. I will agree with that. But I don't see any value in calling her a filthy one. And I see an error in ascribing her views uncritically to all of her fellow travellers.

I did vote for the BQ once when I had come of age and was able to vote. It did seem a good idea at the time. =/ I recently voted for the NDP and wasn't really all that sad seeing Duceppe fall. He did some good criticism in Ottawa most of the time, but meh... Jack's following death really moved me emotionally though.

I personally don't think the french language is threatened that much. Heck, even our provincial government pays/recommends french classes to immigrants before they arrive. =/ I have some old information regarding the french language retreating from Montreal into the surrounding suburbs such as Laval and Longueuil though, but I've not been updated recently. =( I'm pretty sure french is pretty safe throughout the province. =p Not much multiculturalism outside of Montreal, so I hear. Even Québec city people treat their fellow Quebeckers as strangers, but that's another story.

There is not that much racism from the nationalism of Bloc Québécois; there is of course some separatist who are racists, but that certainly not the case for all. (Likelly to be a minority too.) A great deal of the souverainist are more toward left-wing nationalism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_nationalism (This is generaly the political position of artists.)

More like peoples consider the Bloc as a dead end and that no one sure what is the point of it's existence. I never heard anything that may make me think that the Bloc was corrupted; though french quebecers certainly rejected the liberal party because of the "scandale des commandites".


The title of the film is indeed Octobre , but I don't think it was that innacurate, though based on what were saying the kidnappers. Indeed the directors was well... quite outspoken for Québec independence and rather blunt with his words, sometime going too far with them. Still, this may be his most subtle film in what it show everyone as a human being, including Pierre Laporte. It mostly show the kidnappers being way over they head in what they doing.


Statistics show that french is going backward in Québec, particulary in Montreal. The young generation (teens up to CEGEP), under the influence of the MTVisation and americanistion of the culture, (As well as bad history lesson asseptised by post-modernism) don't care about the preservation of french anymore. For them this is irrelevant and we may as well all speak english. More and more Québec music groups are singing in english while they're native language is french. More and more french-quebecers want they're childrens to be educated entirelly in english, under a fallacious pretext of opening to the world, thinking this is how they gonna succed in life. The situation is worrying. And stupid considering that USA is a empire in decline.


Almost every signs in Québec were in english before the law 101, while 80% of the population is french, this was a ludicrous situation well telling of a state of "colonisation". You should check there to know more about the historical context in which the law 101 has come. http://www.radio-canada.ca/emissions/tout_le_monde_en_parlait/2009/reportages.asp?annee=2009&mois=6
The three parts about "lutte linguistiques".

It should be said that René Lévesque himself was not against the "anglo-québécois" and considered them as a essential part of Québec history and culture. He considered though that french quebecers had to assert themself and built a country with french as official language. The government that formed the PQ of 1976 to 1980 was alos the best of the history of Québec, thanks to it's great number of much needed reforms.

You should watch Le confort et l'indifférence for which Denys Arcand summoned Machiavelli from the dead, and it can tell you many things on the seperatism movement. http://www.onf.ca/film/confort_et_lindifference

There are Canadian elections?

Sure enough we have 'em.

Can't vote as I'm British but if I was Canadian I'd probably vote Libertarian.

Especially when there's more than some merit in that mentality.