Have you been hurt or rejected by a church or other ministry

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Hello!

As an Aspie of faith, I have been hurt or rejected by a number of churches and ministries over the years, due to my being 'different', or over some other aspect of my AS. If you share in having been unfairly treated by a body of 'believers', I'd like to hear your story - either here or by PM, if you prefer.

Have A Great Day!

Rob

"I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." - Rev. 2:9-11, KJV

I tend to socialize in particular ways and place a high premium on having a real grasp of theology. As a result, I have occasionally been slightly insulted by members of some Churches.

Shouldn't this tell you something about Christianity itself?

when it comes to the faith i have to say that:
salvation must be available to all.

and as the odd ball out, it is not my responsibility to fight the double standards applied to the odd balls out at this current time, instead focusing on the task you're charged with. if you don't know then you should fix that....

no, see my opening statement.
the mechanics must be variable.
I will not say that a person born on 1000 AD on Easter island has no hope of achieving salvation. most Christians don't want to discuss such things.
The fact remains that what happens after you die is a known unknown when you look through the scientific glass.. it will always be that way.

Hello!

The fact that some people aren't really who they say they are does not affect my belief in Christianity in any way. I believe in Christ and His sacrifice, not in those who are unable to see my purpose in this world, and would prefer me to be elsewhere.

I serve in a church now where I am loved, accepted, and viewed by all as someone who is a great asset to them. It is what many/most churches are, and have become, that is the issue. Sadly, the church is a reflection of society.

Have A Great Day!

Rob

Hi Rob-N4RPS,

Have you read the book "Mad Church Disease"?

An Attorney General for my State used the book "The Kingdom of the Cults" against my then Church. This book is now the "Pariah" because of Romney and Gold Tablets.

Have you read much of Thomas de Cantimpre?

My somewhat deadliest wild closing encounter was with the clergy shooting bullets at me as I was fulfilling my escape to save my Golden Ass from that set of lecherous Draculas of God per my epileptic deja vu of being Rimbaud with a clergy of the possibly more deadeye-dick Verlaines.

Did you see my former "evangelist" Garner Ted on YouTube demanding a quickie in the nude from his unwilling mauseuse? A wordy version from others is at: http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/artcls/gta_mas.htm
At least that one wasn't armed and dangerous and chasing me for an embrace.

I was regarded as fluctuating between speaking-in-tongues for God & Satan by my churches prior to my adolescence, during which I was blessed as Puck the iurodivyi.

Tadzio

Not sure I could say I was treated unfairly, but I was often viewed and treated wrongly. Where most people seemed to just "get in line" and do things like everyone else, I ended up being judged as disruptive for asking questions and not being a good, non-thinking sectarian. For example, a mother with four boys got all bothered when I talked with one of her sons and others about things like masturbation, and that ultimately resulted in my being ousted as a youth director. In another situation, a pastor once threatened to sue me for his paycheck after I had exposed some of his financial gymnastics and manipulations among the flock. Overall, I think other people just cannot handle our being unconventional and/or just speaking our hearts and minds.

yes. Every church I have ever gone too; which is probably around 12. I have no desire to publicly tell the stories. Lets just say they range from 'we need to exorcize the AS from you' to 'stop it, get over it and get in line. AS doesn't exist'.

I have no use for churches.

It is very difficult to answer because there is exactly ONE religious organization that hurt me. But that organization was Jewish rather than Christian. Since I am now a Christian it is difficult to call anything that rejects Jesus to be a "church". And taking the doctrinal differences aside, the people who went to the Jewish organization were going there mostly to socialize as opposed to serving God (although yes they prayed too). I do realize that the same is true for churches. But at least there is no such thing as "a baptist who doesn't believe in God but considers himself baptist merely for cultural reasons", but if you remove the word "baptist" and replace it with the word "jew" then yes there are Jews who call themselves Jews and don't believe in God. So in light of this I don't even know that most ppl in that Jewish organization believed in God anyway, so how can I know if it was religious?

Anyway, I attended that organization for 2 years. No one asked me to leave. But at the same time a lot of people avoided talking to me. Also they didn't let me go to the trip to Israel that is otherwise available for free to anyone born Jewish. And no I did not tell them I was considering chrfistianity. So their dislike of me was strictly due to Asperger and nothing else.

I don't know, man. Being a "new creature in Christ", one would expect some radical difference in behavior and attitude between Christians and non-Christians in general.

Instead, we see the flaws of human nature in all sorts of groups, religious or not. What makes "true" Christians special practically speaking? None.

I know Christianity states that man is a sinner by nature, but still ... if you walk the Jesus walk and you have the Holy Spirit in you, I'd like to see some radical holy behavior and attitude unseen in nonChristians ... which I have yet to see in any professing Christian.

To see a change in someone's life, you by definition would have to know that person both pre- and post-conversion. Only then you can say there was or wasn't a change., So by saying you haven't seen any radical or behavior changes in any Christians, you are saying that you personally know every Christian both pre and post conversion. Which is a proposterous statement.

Are you talking about physical injury, financial injury or hurt feelings?

ruveyn

I don't know, I grew up until 6th grade in an Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. No rock music, even Christian rock, King James Bible is the only Bible translation, rest are from Satan, etc. I went to the associated school, too. So, while they didn't specifically hurt or reject me, I'd say in a lot of ways it was a negative place to be in. In some ways it was positive, though, a lot of the teachers really did like me, and my NVLD/Aspie traits, and some hated them. I guess it was slightly better there as a child, despite the legalistic craziness going on there, compared to public school where I would have just gotten eaten alive by the kids there. Spiritually, though, all the legalism and stuff like that took it's toll and I ended up apostate for 5 or more years after. Now, they've gotten a new pastor and things have changed somewhat and it's overall better, but yeah. So nothing really specific towards me there, just it was a bad environment in a lot of ways.

But, it was partially how I got treated at my last church that made me realize the reality of my NVLD. Part of what me realizing it was, my pastor's son actually has NVLD, too, specifically NVLD like me. Basically, his family and the church would pick on him for being antisocial and stuff. My old church was more of a charismatic/Pentecostal church, it was nondenominational, but yeah. Basically, their big thing was giving a sense of togetherness and community, looking back on it. At first I felt kinda welcomed, and I due to circumstances, I had kinda been not around any people at all. So I felt the whole community/group aspect thing really cool, and I liked having a bunch of "friends" again. One of the mottos or whatever of my church was "actively loving" people. Which I guess sounds good on the surface, but I learned later it basically meant pretend to like and be friends with everyone for the sake of the Gospel. Basically, to put it shortly, the church ended up becoming cultlike in the way it was ran. I find the "actively loving" thing they did basically the same as what is called with cults, lovebombing.

I think probably the main "kicker" besides having a unresolved feelings about a girl there who got married (long long story in itself) was my youth pastor and the way I was treated by him. It came down to one conversation that went like "Why weren't you in youth group the past couple weeks, we miss you." And then I told him, basically that I didn't feel I "connected" (the youth group was called CONNECT, almost ironically for me anyway) very well with the youth there, and I always felt out of place with the youth, even as a kid. I also even said it may be me at fault, but that's just the way things are. He responds back, "I thought the Kingdom of God was about how you can serve others, not about how you can be served." So I was pissed, and then responded back "Woe to you teachers of the law, for you give men heavy burdens they can hardly lift, but do not lift a finger to help them." And then he asked "Are you referring to me?" and I said yes, and he said "I'm sorry you feel that way." Which I didn't interpret as being sincere. But uh, the main thing, he'd always always tell me how weird I was, how my tastes were weird, basically all the things now I can attribute to NVLD or Aspergers. That, and he'd randomly touch me in a mocking kind of way. Like, he said he was being "loving" by doing that (boy that word got thrown around a lot there.) Like I'd be sitting somewhere, he'd randomly grab my shoulder, or punch me somewhat softly or something. He also even one time kicked me in the butt, again sorta soft, but I'd told him many times, like literally told him straight out "do not touch me, I don't like it." And then even sat him down, and told him WHY specifically I don't like being touched, even bringing up specific things in my life (ie, if people touch you like that in prison, that means they're going to take advantage of you) of why I don't like it, he just wrote me off, and said I was crazy.

The main thing was, I was just unlike the other people there. Like, the youth pastor got "mad" at me a little because he asked if I was gonna drink anything my 21st birthday. I told him I'd probably buy a beer or wine to drink at home or something. He told me that was being antisocial, and to bring a bunch of people from church to the bar with me.

Basically, if you can't tell, it seems this entire church was like, based around the idea of being social and togetherness=Godliness, and ideally we should be friends with everyone ever to potentially lead them to Christ, no matter what, even if it did mean drinking at bars with them or something. Some of the tactics used were I think deplorable, looking back on it, said youth pastor (as you can see, it's him I had the main problem with, the main pastors were pretty good imo, but I think the youth pastor more or less poisoned the well) had crazy ideas. He said if you talk to people while they're drunk, they're more accepting to hear and discuss Christian stuff. Which is true...but you're more or less taking advantage of someone, and I think it's a very dishonest kinda thing to do.

Basically, this pastor seemed obsessed with social manipulation and groups and all that. He'd admonish me for not being in "the group" of people from youth group, as I wasn't naturally...the type for those groups. I just felt like the whole thing was sorta dishonest, as the pastor seemed to want to force us all to be the bestest of friends with eachother. Then he'd get pissed at me for, let's say I spent like 10 hours literally that week debating someone about Christianity, he'd be like "bring them to youth group!" It seemed he thought his youth group mattered more than any other Christian activity ever. He didn't say "Bring them on Sunday, if they can't make it here, here's a few good churches in that area." Basically, it felt like, church multilevel marketting, instead of spreading the Gospel.

So, all in all, even if doctrinally on the surface, what they taught wasn't really out of the ordinary (well now I think it is somewhat, but now I'm Orthodox Christian, more on that below) it basically was ran scarily close to like a cult. I've left now, and now I'm pursuing Orthodox Christianity, and as far as the fallout, it's been...not too fun. I went from being hypersocial extroverty to the max there, to like, a boring introvert, who's kinda bitter now due to this whole thing. My priest told me before God could really bless me, I have to forgive others. I do wish I can bring myself to forgive them. Unforgiveness hardens your heart like nothing else. I had a lot kinda invested into this church, and it was very hard for me to leave. Very hard. But, if it's not working, it's not. Maybe that type of church has a purpose of some sort for someone else, but...not for me. My best friend, I guess is no longer my best friend. After I left, I think he more or less believes I'm a heretic, and hasn't talked to me almost at all since I left. None of the people there have really tried to contact me. The person who was around my age, who I guess had a fairly high "rank" in the youth area, he talked to me, and he was OK with my Orthodox decision, and agreed with me when I said that it seems that that church had too much of an emphasis of trying to make people extroverts. But after that, more or less nothing. My (I guess former now) best friend who went to that church, he pretty much never talks to me anymore, now that I left. I guess he feels no obligation to anymore, since I'm no longer part of "the group" and might as well be an icon worshipping neo-Platonist or something to him.

Now, I go to to an Eastern Orthodox Church. Over the summer, I did lots of reading, and my theology was challenged, and in the end, Orthodox Christianity is what remained I guess. Biggest things were substitutionary atonement, and the fate of people after death I guess. Orthodoxy has a more sensible logical view on that. The other thing, too, the Church historically has tackled all the issues Protestants are arguing about now, they did it years ago. Truly, there's nothing new under the sun really. I guess my old church would be, if we're using a historical thing to compare it to, would be like the Montanists of the 3rd century or so. Everything's already been figured out, and it seems Protestantism wants to like, reinvent the wheel. God uses it all, obviously, and God does love them, but...yeah...

Besides that, theological things aside, the Orthodox Church is a much better place for me to be. More older people, and the younger people that go are usually more introverted and nerdy. That, and the emphasis of the church, is much more on the worship of God. The services are ENTIRELY worship services there. I mean, some might think they're boring or whatever, but you can't deny that they are worshiping. One guy described on some other website I went to, described it as "the first church service I went to about worshipping God, and not some guy telling me I shouldn't go out on Halloween." I personally quite like the liturgical kind of service. So, at the Orthodox church, there's a very clear distinction from socializing and worship. I can just go to the Divine Liturgy and ignore everyone else entirely, and it's perfectly fine there. The people at the church are nice to me, but they don't "lovebomb" like my old church did.

But yeah, long long long story there. I hope God gives me the strength to forgive them, but yeah, it's...yeah.

Last edited by 1000Knives on 03 Jan 2012, 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I get ostracized by churches because I ask questions like:

• Are members of this church encouraged to interpret the Bible in their own way?
• Are members of this church encouraged to read the Bible on their own?
• Are people free to leave your church of their own free will?
• Are there leaders of your church who do not meet the minimum Biblical standards for being a church leader?
• Are there people who attend your church on a regular basis who don't tithe or put anything in the collection plate?
• Are women allowed to preach from the pulpit, or does your church prohibit women from leadership roles?
• Does anyone in your church harass those who leave until they come back?
• Does the church support any outside organizations or charities, apart from the church itself?
• Does your church accept married couples that came from two different ethnicities?
• Does your pastor or has your pastor done anything else in life besides pastor a church?
• Has any member of this church actually seen an angel?
• Has any member of this church ever had a lost limb miraculously regenerated?
• Has your pastor ever had a secular-oriented job outside the church?
• Have you ever disagreed with anything you pastor has taught you?
• How does this church spend the money it receives?
• How many people are currently receiving social services (i.e., day care, food bank, sheltering, tutoring, et cetera) directly through your church?
• How many salaries does the church pay?
• How much is each salary?
• Is everything in the Bible the absolute truth?
• Is the pastor/church leadership open about the church's financials?
• May I be free to disagree with anyone's interpretation of the Bible?
• May I be free to question your pastor's teachings on any given topic?
• May I question the spiritual authority of those who interpret the Bible?
• What are the church's biggest expenditures?
• When someone claims to have experienced a miracle, do you ask for empirical proof, or do you just accept their word as true?
• Why does the Bible use the integer value of 3 for the value of Pi?

I have many more questions to ask, but these are the ones I ask most often. At least, I try to ask all of them; leaders and congregants alike seem to think that the answers are none of my business, and that I have no right to ask any of these questions in the first place.

If you're asking all those at once, that's just nagging.

I never get the chance to ask all of them at once. Whoever I'm talking to seems to get all huffy after only the first three or four.