time, space, the ultimate riddles

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Time.... Where did it begin? Personally, I do not think it had a beginning, and this is the only certain conclusion, because even before time was invented, time had to already be there. Same can be said of space, even as far back as it were just infinite white space or something, it was something... But both are so full of wonder. Time seems to be very inconsistent throughout space.... Aging moves at different paces in different places or planets, 5 minutes here may be 3 hours on another world... Yet, time is percieved differently by many different creatures, all at different brain levels. Two days for us is a year to a hampster...... I'm searching for a unified link between these two phenoms somewhere, even if it's just theoretical, as long as it has some scientific grounds.... Any pointers?

Space/time requires matter and movement to create it. If you stop all movement, you stop time as well.

Time started exactly 73 years and 25 minutes ago. Everything before that is made up.

Time/Space has no beginning or end. The Universe is infinite. Every moment is a beginning and end. Order is possible only in chaos. Travel through space and you travel through time. All moments in time are located at some place in space. All places are located in time. These are some perceptions.

Time probably had a beginning in terms of the life of this universe as we are relatively certain that this universe isn't infinite but rather suspect a big bang, however, to think beyond the start of our universe is difficult to do as time is an aspect of our reality and it is hard to assume the nature of pre-existing universes. Time is not too much different throughout the universe, the only times when time seems to change are at super high speeds that are very difficult to obtain and then it slows down, but this is something that rarely occurs and the idea of worlds having differences of a magnitude where 1 second in one area is occurs in about the same time from our reference point as 864 seconds in another area is rarely(possibly never) found outside of star trek as the other place would have to be going at .999 times the speed of light relative to the first which is ridiculously fast, especially for an object the size we speak of. The equation for figuring this out is below and is a part of special relativity.

t=T/(1-(v^2)/(c^2)) where t = time solved for T = reference time v= velocity and c= speed of light

So, (3*24*60)/5=864/1

Therefore, 864 = 1/(1-(v^2)/(c^2))

1-(v^2)/(c^2) = 1/864 1-1/864=(v^2)/(c^2) 863/864 = (v/c)^2

We square root both sides and now (863/864)^.5 = v/c

(863/864)^.5 = .999 .999=v/c .999c = v be aware that I did cut off the digits smaller than 1/1000

The nature of time in reality and the nature of time in biology are unrelated though, as the physical nature of time is the same for both a man and a hampster as they both travel at about the same speed, the only thing is that the hampster was not designed to last as long as the man so the different species have different values for their time.

I find it funny that a lot of scientists get caught on the big bang, when obviously the energy itself must have come from somewhere, most logically from a previous contraction or "big crunch".

They've used the lack of entropy as a reason to explain the universes constant expansion, but even if it expands forever it must all come around somehow anyway, and begin again.

I see it like a wave, like sound, the same way light moves. Motion itself creating existence, existence only being that in motion.

It's universal, human conciousness itself to me seems to be a motion between two points with infinate possibilities between.

edit: I didn't explain myself well, I'm gonna spend some weeks writing a thesis on it instead. Love this thread though!

In my opinion, people should reasses what the term Universe means. The supposed meaning is "everything that is". Now imagine for examples sake that their was such a thing as a big bang. This bang is only one in an infinitude of bangs in different "verses". Here is my current description of the "Universe". At the top we have the "Universe", this is everything. Underneath this we have "Multiverses". A Multiverse is a subset within the Universe composed of an infinite amount of verses. The microverse would be said to be inwards and the macroverse would be said to be outwards. Imagine a tub full of bubbles with every bubble representing a verse. Some bubbles have bubbles within, others do not, though each bubble maintains mathematical laws. Now imagine that this bathtub is contained inside a bubble in an even bigger tub and one may begin to see a better model. It troubles me that many look to the known edges of our verse and conclude that is all that is. Many can not see how the Universe is infinite, I can not see how it could be finite. If time is infinite, space is also infinite. If a big bang did happen, it is "certain" to happen again, ad infinitum. Would anyone like to extrapolate? Perhaps add a little scientific magic to this? : )

I see it as this, all existence vibrates to exist, to take up "space" it must move right. So every atom vibrates, every planet moves, etc etc. If we take it up to the biggest scale we know, a universal one, it would logically be the same vibration, two points with infinite possibilities between.

Maybe like a sound wave, so the expansion of this mass vibration causes every possibility to exist in one form or another, as it comes in the reverse takes place, as in...

Time and Space are the same thing, for every second is also motion of space itself, I definately don't consider the universe "all that is" (edit: the universe is all that is, I meant something that goes beyond our limits we can't impose limits upon, so if its EVERYTHING, it is everything.)

but I believe we can learn everything, about all existence from the properties of all matter, energy, and motion, why wouldn't the laws that apply here, apply anywhere else.

Add or take different sizes, volumes, and vibration and you get different gravity, colour, light, different representations of motion. Throw a ball it stops because of friction, gravity, etc. Take away those factors and it will go forever.

Last edited by Scintillate on 11 Oct 2006, 2:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

The Universe is defined as "all that is". Yet it is infinite in scope. How do you definitely not see the Universe as all that is Scintillate?

Wow too right that was a bad sentence I used.


The universe IS all that is, and if it is infinite in scope, I agree. I guess I was trying to "relativise" it, as in bring it down to something like "all that we can possibly know that is"..

I guess I was trying to say there is always more than we know, but in a really bad way.


But then I thought, what was actually wrong was my perception of the word universe, I was taking it as all matter, and all energy, but since the definition is "all that is" it can work with time too..

I just didn't bring the two together, infinite motion = infinite time = universe..


Our very understanding of what is the universe, it will continue to expand with our knowledge, therefore we don't really need new words for it, or new definitions, simply more understanding about reality itself will teach us the way the universe works.

So..

A theory on everything... is a theory on the universe?

Universe=Everything. Theory of Universe=Theory of everything.
If their is "always" more that we can know, this presupposes infinity.

By creating new words, terms, and meanings, we are able to define more clearly that which is. Many people "from my perspective" misunderstand the term "Universe" because it is poorly defined. There can be no such thing as a parallel Universe because the Universe is all that is. Though it is possible that their are parallel verses. In an infinite Universe this is immutable. That is to say that in an infinite Universe all possible arrangements of patterns will manifest. I guess what bothers me most is that even though I contend to understand the Universe in my own reflection, I feel that I do a poor job at relaying these concepts. Maybe if everyone just said to themselves, "The Universe is infinite", the rest would naturally follow. I have never been able to allow myself to see the Universe as non infinite.
I am going to drink some coffee now. Thank you very much Scintillate for your commentary and insight. I hope others will contribute to this discussion so that it may move forward. : )

Thankyou I can't share such thoughts anywhere else except alone usually

Time began when you began thinking about it. Just as it will end when you find more important things to do.

Right so the earth was flat until we found out it was round?

So sound vibrates through the air but it only does because we have ears?

Damn I hate the anti-thought police, not saying you're one of them but I couldn't think of anything better to do than to pursue such questions.

All progress is progress, all knowledge is worth knowing..

edit: No offence but someone with an average of 23.26 posts a day shouldn't really be telling others about what is "better to do" or what is worth thinking about and what isnt..

We're on the bring of a theory of everything, I for one think understanding what composes our physical reality is one of the most important things for mankind to do.. Maybe you're happy without knowing something, but some of us need to know the how and why of things, some of us couldn't be any other way.. Surely you know this?

Surely you respect that people have other interests besides yours? Space, Time, whatever they may mean to you... Try and see that its the bouncing of ideas that can lead us to whatever fundamental truths we're trying to find... Thinking about apparently pointless things like this led to the very technology you're using to type..


Hmmn.

Perception is a tool, it is how we try to define our reality, surely it doesn't create our reality?

You got me wrong. Happens to me all the time. On this forum, you might do well to recall that some of us have Aspergers and therefore may not always express ourselves as well as we might like..

Not asking you to stop asking yourself when time began or any other such questions. Inquiry into such questions is obviously a good thing. What I am saying, put in a more philosophical way, is that time is a mental construct. It is a function of the way we see the world rather than a function of the world itself. (If you are familiar with philosophy, I might refer you to the writings of Kant on this point, or the great Indian philosophers such as Nagarjuna and Shankara). In that sense, it begins with thought.

When I spoke of finding more important things to do, what I had in mind was finding a way of looking at life which is more important than seeing it through the medium of time. A kind of direct perception of the world unmediated by mental constructs which are time-dependent. This is more important because it will put you in touch with a deeper reality. In that sense, then, time will come to an end when you are able to see the world directly without the need to use time-dependent mental constructs.

OK, I accept that what I meant was probably not clear from the way I put it, but I didn't think I ought to embark on a long and boring discourse about philosophy, so I tried to encapsulate my point in a brief sentence. I guess I didn't succeed. Apologies if I offended, and I hope that this will clear it up. By all means go on asking and questioning. Good for you!