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iceveela
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24 Jan 2012, 9:53 pm

I am sorry, but if you honestly think that the 2012 NDAA states that random Americans will be detained and tortured for no reason, than I honestly question whether you you are qualified to vote in the US...

The bill quite plainly, to anyone with eyes who have read it, states that it is only to detain Terrorists (they mention plainly the ones from 2001, the twin towers terrorist attack, but lets broaden it to assume they mean all terrorists), and mentions for them not to be American Residents.

"But Iceveela, what about the word "required" that implies that they can arrest US residents if they desire?"

Ok, I'll play your game... It still only applies to terror suspects, but now it also applies to terrorists who are American citizens.

Are you a terrorist? No? Than this does not and will never apply to you.

You ARE a terrorist? You better start running!

Have a nice day and get some education! knowledge is power! And you now have some!


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24 Jan 2012, 9:54 pm

You aren't a terrorist?

Prove it


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24 Jan 2012, 10:01 pm

Vigilans wrote:
You aren't a terrorist?

Prove it


I bet he is. I'm calling the authorities.


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iceveela
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24 Jan 2012, 10:08 pm

snapcap wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
You aren't a terrorist?

Prove it


I bet he is. I'm calling the authorities.


I am a GIRL by the way...

And I can ask you two for the same evidence...


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24 Jan 2012, 10:14 pm

iceveela wrote:
snapcap wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
You aren't a terrorist?

Prove it


I bet he is. I'm calling the authorities.


I am a GIRL by the way...

And I can ask you two for the same evidence...


I wasn't trying to imply you are a terrorist! :lol: I was simply asking the question. What would you do if presented this question in a forceful manner by a police or military police officer?
Do terrorists identify themselves or do they wear uniforms? The statement "only detain terrorists" is actually very broad. I need to see a definition, from them, on terrorism. A police state is a scary place to live


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24 Jan 2012, 10:24 pm

Vigilans wrote:
I wasn't trying to imply you are a terrorist! :lol: I was simply asking the question. What would you do if presented this question in a forceful manner by a police or military police officer?
Do terrorists identify themselves or do they wear uniforms? The statement "only detain terrorists" is actually very broad. I need to see a definition, from them, on terrorism. A police state is a scary place to live


Probably roll up into a ball and whimper... or in some other way start crying.

Terrorism is defined by google... and the US governement... websters dictionary, etc. And I am sure it is unconstitutional to detain random people and claim them as terrorists without evidence. The police cannot even put GPS trackers on cars of suspected drug dealers without a search warrant. And you cannot even look at a female wrong in the workplace without it being sexual harassment, both defended by the court system and for fear of rage by the masses. We cannot even get away with minor crimes of littering here in the US, why do you think the government will get away with torturing random citizens for no reason?

makes no sense to me...


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24 Jan 2012, 10:38 pm

iceveela wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
I wasn't trying to imply you are a terrorist! :lol: I was simply asking the question. What would you do if presented this question in a forceful manner by a police or military police officer?
Do terrorists identify themselves or do they wear uniforms? The statement "only detain terrorists" is actually very broad. I need to see a definition, from them, on terrorism. A police state is a scary place to live


Probably roll up into a ball and whimper... or in some other way start crying.

Terrorism is defined by google... and the US governement... websters dictionary, etc. And I am sure it is unconstitutional to detain random people and claim them as terrorists without evidence. The police cannot even put GPS trackers on cars of suspected drug dealers without a search warrant. And you cannot even look at a female wrong in the workplace without it being sexual harassment, both defended by the court system and for fear of rage by the masses. We cannot even get away with minor crimes of littering here in the US, why do you think the government will get away with torturing random citizens for no reason?

makes no sense to me...


Why are you taking conspiracy theories seriously?


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iceveela
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24 Jan 2012, 11:12 pm

snapcap wrote:
iceveela wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
I wasn't trying to imply you are a terrorist! :lol: I was simply asking the question. What would you do if presented this question in a forceful manner by a police or military police officer?
Do terrorists identify themselves or do they wear uniforms? The statement "only detain terrorists" is actually very broad. I need to see a definition, from them, on terrorism. A police state is a scary place to live


Probably roll up into a ball and whimper... or in some other way start crying.

Terrorism is defined by google... and the US governement... websters dictionary, etc. And I am sure it is unconstitutional to detain random people and claim them as terrorists without evidence. The police cannot even put GPS trackers on cars of suspected drug dealers without a search warrant. And you cannot even look at a female wrong in the workplace without it being sexual harassment, both defended by the court system and for fear of rage by the masses. We cannot even get away with minor crimes of littering here in the US, why do you think the government will get away with torturing random citizens for no reason?

makes no sense to me...


Why are you taking conspiracy theories seriously?


Because I detest ignorance with a passion! I rely on cold hard facts to get me through the day, and then someone pops up out of nowhere claiming things like "pixies exist!" and then you heard their "evidence" (Harry Potter!) and my good day is now in the toilet! and then what makes me more upset is that people are dumb enough to believe them!! ! Nibiru for heavens sake! Scientology! Lochness Monster!! ! Even Aliens on earth!

Ignorance makes my head hurt...


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25 Jan 2012, 12:05 am

iceveela wrote:
Probably roll up into a ball and whimper... or in some other way start crying.


awwww lol

iceveela wrote:
Terrorism is defined by google... and the US governement... websters dictionary, etc. And I am sure it is unconstitutional to detain random people and claim them as terrorists without evidence. The police cannot even put GPS trackers on cars of suspected drug dealers without a search warrant. And you cannot even look at a female wrong in the workplace without it being sexual harassment, both defended by the court system and for fear of rage by the masses. We cannot even get away with minor crimes of littering here in the US, why do you think the government will get away with torturing random citizens for no reason?

makes no sense to me...


Well, I wouldn't have described it in that manner- but what you said actually should lead you to the conclusion that it *does* make sense. That there is so much 'invasive' control on the life of an individual as is shows that these things develop step by step. Sexual harassment having such a fine line being an example. Now the brand "terrorist" has been broadened. I don't mean a dictionary definition, I mean a concrete, legal definition. The probable logic used by those enforcing will generally be "well this person *may* be a terrorist, based on our investigations that utilize privacy-invasive research to generate behavioral models to conclude who may be a risk; therefore it is safer to put them away for an unspecified amount of time without charges"


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25 Jan 2012, 12:35 am

The issue is how hard it is to prove you aren't a terrorist.

It could be as little as "you were seen in the vicinity of the residence of a known terrorist, we have reason to believe you may have been in his home. You are now under arrest."


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25 Jan 2012, 12:42 am

Cash is trash: Big American Brother gives hints on how to spot citizen terrorists

Quote:
Do you own flashlights? Or pay with cash instead of a credit card? And do grocery shopping for the week? I do. You probably do – and guess what, according to the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI, that could make both of us terrorists.


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25 Jan 2012, 1:56 am

Nonsense. That's the same argument they've been using to rape our civil liberties for ever now. If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about... Give me a frickin break.

We have this thing called the constitution, you should read it sometime.



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25 Jan 2012, 2:03 am

Jacoby wrote:
Nonsense. That's the same argument they've been using to rape our civil liberties for ever now. If you're not doing anything wrong you have nothing to worry about... Give me a frickin break.


Heh, in authoritarian regimes it's considered wrong to harbour opinions against the state. I love how that fact is ignored with such reasoning. :lol:


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25 Jan 2012, 9:23 am

I am sure that according to the constitution, federal law, state law, and even international law, that we would need at LEAST a search warrant to arrest them if they are residents. And even if they didn't, they cannot torture us. We have the constitution, International law, and 4 treaties who adamantly are against torture. Article 2 of the UN convention on torture: “No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.” We won't even allow someone to become a US resident if they committed torture in their lives...

We also cannot hold US residents without a lawyer. not to mention it is unlawful to even not tell the person their Maranda rights. Also, Michael Crowe was held for hours and has a confession forced out of him by the police, the police department got in trouble.

So it shocks me that people think that even IF this bill talks about US residents, that it would matter. Even the Supreme Court haven't ruled this unconstitutional, and they rule quite a lot unconstitutional. Probably because if it WAS a torture/detain of US residents bill, everyone in the governments family and friends could go to jail... and I don't think they will sign a bill that can have themselves arrested for the rest of their lives for no reason..

I guess it is because I am not delusional enough to believe my government is out to get me.


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25 Jan 2012, 1:22 pm

iceveela wrote:
I am sure that according to the constitution, federal law, state law, and even international law, that we would need at LEAST a search warrant to arrest them if they are residents. And even if they didn't, they cannot torture us. We have the constitution, International law, and 4 treaties who adamantly are against torture. Article 2 of the UN convention on torture: “No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.” We won't even allow someone to become a US resident if they committed torture in their lives...

We also cannot hold US residents without a lawyer. not to mention it is unlawful to even not tell the person their Maranda rights. Also, Michael Crowe was held for hours and has a confession forced out of him by the police, the police department got in trouble.

So it shocks me that people think that even IF this bill talks about US residents, that it would matter. Even the Supreme Court haven't ruled this unconstitutional, and they rule quite a lot unconstitutional. Probably because if it WAS a torture/detain of US residents bill, everyone in the governments family and friends could go to jail... and I don't think they will sign a bill that can have themselves arrested for the rest of their lives for no reason..

I guess it is because I am not delusional enough to believe my government is out to get me.


*facepalms*

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE ARE SO UPTIGHT ABOUT THE BILL.

It REMOVES these rights. If you think America is above torture, you are delusional. If you think America is above violating your rights, you are delusional. If you think that it doesn't apply to YOU, you are delusional.


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iceveela
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25 Jan 2012, 5:13 pm

abacacus wrote:
iceveela wrote:
I am sure that according to the constitution, federal law, state law, and even international law, that we would need at LEAST a search warrant to arrest them if they are residents. And even if they didn't, they cannot torture us. We have the constitution, International law, and 4 treaties who adamantly are against torture. Article 2 of the UN convention on torture: “No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.” We won't even allow someone to become a US resident if they committed torture in their lives...

We also cannot hold US residents without a lawyer. not to mention it is unlawful to even not tell the person their Maranda rights. Also, Michael Crowe was held for hours and has a confession forced out of him by the police, the police department got in trouble.

So it shocks me that people think that even IF this bill talks about US residents, that it would matter. Even the Supreme Court haven't ruled this unconstitutional, and they rule quite a lot unconstitutional. Probably because if it WAS a torture/detain of US residents bill, everyone in the governments family and friends could go to jail... and I don't think they will sign a bill that can have themselves arrested for the rest of their lives for no reason..

I guess it is because I am not delusional enough to believe my government is out to get me.


*facepalms*

THIS IS WHY PEOPLE ARE SO UPTIGHT ABOUT THE BILL.

It REMOVES these rights. If you think America is above torture, you are delusional. If you think America is above violating your rights, you are delusional. If you think that it doesn't apply to YOU, you are delusional.


Even if you say so... it does not make it factual

Once someone actually gets tortured and imprisoned indefinitely for no reason, than call me. I am over conspiracy theories...


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