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bitterbonker
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25 Jan 2012, 5:09 am

Native cultures evolved in North America; Native peoples learned how to obtain food and shelter from places which gave them their unique identity. As the Lakota author Joe Marshall points out, each species had at least one ability or characteristic that set each of them apart from other species, which enhanced their chances of survival as individuals.

Humans had understanding and intelligence, but lacked the speed, strength, horns, teeth, and claws of other species. The way for humans to survive and prosper was to pay careful attention and learn as much as possible about the strengths and weaknesses of all other beings, so that they could take them as food and avoid being taken by them as food.

The body of knowledge that was acquired through this careful observation was passed on to others through detailed stories, which had to be repeated constantly so that the knowledge would be passed on intact, and future generations would retain the knowledge acquired by their ancestors.

Several themes emerged through these stories. First was the idea of a cycle, or circle, of life. This is not a mystical, ethereal concept based on great mysteries, but a practical recognition of the fact that all living things are connected. It is the realization that it is impossible for any single being to exist without the connections it has to many other beings.

The relationships to nature of people of the First Nations have often been described in simple terms such as “harmony with nature” or “love for nature.” Such descriptions too often project a rather amorphous spiritual character to this relationship, but overlook the rich, empirical knowledge of the lives of plants and animals that was such a major component of the daily lives of Native peoples. The attitudes and relationships of Native people to other beings result from having evolved as distinct cultures in strong association with these other creatures, and experiencing them on a daily basis.

Perhaps the best way to think of this is that Native people lived as though the lives of other beings mattered, i.e., that all other organisms should be taken seriously. They experienced these other creatures in their role as parents, or as offspring. They also realized that their own lives were intimately intertwined with those of these other organisms.

Most importantly they recognized that the human being is not the measure of all things. Rather, humans exist as but one small part of a very complex ecosystem. This contrasts to the Western view that sees humans as above the rest of nature.

- Raymond Pierotti & Daniel Wildcat: “The Science of Ecology and Native American Tradition”

-------------

At the time of first white contacts, American Indians practiced their own form of environmental relations, in which efficiency of subsistence production and spiritual concern for nature maintained a creative tension. By both exploiting and revering nature, Indians carried out a religious symbiosis in which both exploitation and reverence were mediated, integrated, and enhanced.

We can probably never turn to the idea that American Indian big game hunters lived a precarious existence; indeed, the wealth of large animal life made Indian subsistence, , on the Plains for instance, relatively easy. One estimate of subsistence activity per day is two to four hours for primitive hunters. Indian hunters, particularly buffalo hunters, are famous for their efficient use of each animal killed, and they serve as prime examples of Indian conservation of each species.

Plains Indians had close to a hundred uses for each buffalo; they fashioned their food, clothing, shelter, bedding, fuel, tools, weapons, storage containers, and adornment, as well as religious paraphernalia from the buffalo. They used skin for tipis, shields, boats, coffins, and clothing; sinew for bow strings, thread, snowshoe webbing and rope; hooves for glue; horns for spoons; gall for yellow paint; back fat for hair grease; robes for blankets; bones for needles; stomach juices for drink; even chips for fuel.

In addition to the conservation of each animal killed, Indians conserved certain members of each species of animal, sparing female or pregnant deer. We find Indian admonitions not to waste animal sources for consciously economic and religious motives.

Indians were empirical observers of animal habits, and their hunting techniques, such as traps, were based on acute observation of animal behavior. Indeed, Indians were sharp observers of their entire surroundings, including the heavens. Their astronomical knowledge far exceeded in 1492 that of the average white person today.

Not only were Indians resourceful with game, but they also made use of food sources, travelling from one area to another to take advantage of whatever was in season. In the Eastern Woodlands wild turkey, partridge, pigeon, duck, geese, deer, elk, beaver, hare, rabbit, muskrat, bear, sea mammals (seals, walrus, whales), fish (salmon, trout, shad, herring, alewives, bass, sturgeon, swordfish) and mollusks (shellfish, lobster).

Dozens of nut trees, wild berries, and other fruits like wild plums, cherries, grapes, and crabapples gave the Indians great diversity and security in a bountiful forest.

In the Southwest Indians used practically every part of mesquite, screwbean, yucca, soto, beargrass, agave, and other wild plants, in order to subsist in seemingly impossible dry climates.

Indians’ familiarity with approximately two hundred medicinal herbs was pragmatic, accurate, and vast, indicating a profound perception of the local flora. In addition, Indians knew these plants minutely. The Tewa, for example, have forty names for different parts of each leaf.

If there was efficiency in Indian methods of gathering and hunting, there was also efficiency in the development of agriculture in the New World. Indians were active modifiers of their plant life. Through centuries of experiments, hybrids, pruning, and weeding, based on a keen perception of feral flora, Indians protected and fostered species, developing them to suit human needs.

Their breeding of 155 species of domesticated plants progressed through long-range planning, knowledge, and skill. The development of corn from its sister plants—beans and squash—resulted from the long, scientific process of observation, hypothesis, and experiment. In the middle Rio Grande, perhaps the oldest continuous area of human habitation in America, the Indians worked their corn and other food plants so as to preserve their environment.

They prevented flooding; they kept grass in an arid climate; they did not deplete wood supplies. White innovations in the same area brought about floods, erosion, and other natural disasters which seriously damaged Indian subsistence.

C. Vecsey

-------------------

The Indians in the New World were able to control their environments through the technology of fire, agriculture, and irrigation. But they also had a sophisticated understanding of the wild plants that grew around them. They depended on the plants not only for food, shelter, and material for baskets and clothing, but also for curing sickness.

Since plants were considered living beings that shared with humans the ability to grow and change and reproduce, to live and die, they could affect human beings, and through use and systematic observation, native people were well aware of the effects of plants on the human body.

Animal behavior probably provided them with clues as to the effect of plants. Scientists in Africa observed chimpanzees swallowing the leaves of Aspilia plants whole. They presumed that this constituted a medicinal use, since the chimpanzees chewed other plants that they used for food. Analysis of those particular leaves showed that they contained a chemical, “thiarubrine A,” which is an antibiotic. Similar active compounds have been found in South American species of Aspilia, leading to the possibility that New World monkeys might have been observed making similar use of their leaves.

Indigenous plant medicines from the New World have proven effective by modern medicinal standards. A hormone extracted from stoneseed, a plant used by Paiute Indian women as a contraceptive, suppresses gonadotropins in the ovaries of laboratory mice and thus interferes with the ovulation cycle. The tlepatli prescribed in Aztec medicine as a diuretic and as a treatment for gangrene contains plumbagin, which is an antibacterial agent, particularly useful against staphylococcus.

The point, however, is not to judge herbal remedies by the standards of modern medicine, or the efficacy of the properties of individual chemical compounds, but to recognize that native people experienced and assessed the powers of plants in consistent ways. Certain plants always produced certain results. To the Indian, the cause was not chemical, but the inherent spiritual power of the plant as a living being.



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25 Jan 2012, 6:31 am

Thread moved from Random Discussion to Politics, Philosophy and Religion.


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25 Jan 2012, 10:48 am

bitterbonker wrote:

The point, however, is not to judge herbal remedies by the standards of modern medicine, or the efficacy of the properties of individual chemical compounds, but to recognize that native people experienced and assessed the powers of plants in consistent ways. Certain plants always produced certain results. To the Indian, the cause was not chemical, but the inherent spiritual power of the plant as a living being.


There is only one way to judge any medicine or medical procedure. By the results. If an issue cannot be settled empirically it is nonsense.

ruveyn



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25 Jan 2012, 12:51 pm

This is not unique to aboriginal culture. Cultures the world over that have practiced these self-same practices.

Many cultural practices and folk remedies have their roots in a connection with the local environment.

Why is aspirin called, "Aspirin?" It derives its name from meadowsweet (Spiraea ulmaria) which is one of the plants in which salycilic acid is found (willow bark is another common botanical source). If we go back the the classical era, Hippocrates prescribed preparations of willow bark and leaves for the treatment of headaches, fever and pain--the same symptoms for which I would still recommend Aspirin today.

It does not matter whether your understanding of the efficacy of natural remedies is chemical, spiritual or coincidental. What stands the test of time is that these remedies will provide relief in many cases. It is the empirical experience, not the spiritual belief that causes people to turn to these remedies from generation to generation. I suggest that the spiritual belief only comes after the effectiveness of the practice has been established. In that sense, the method is still scientific, even if it lacks the rigour that we expect in a modern, sophisticated laboratory setting.


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25 Jan 2012, 2:54 pm

Though I respect Lakota Culture in many respects, such as for its resisting Western Imperialism and its sustainable lifestyle, I think that you are making a gross generalization of the Indigenous Peoples of North America: "All over North America" includes the great cities of Tenochtitlan, Mutal/Tikal, Teotihuacan, Cahokia, &c., not just nomadic, animistic societies like the Lakhota. Even the peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast were settled and stratified in chiefdoms, if not in states as in the Mississippians or the Mixtecs. I honestly find the more complex societies of the PNW coast, Oasisamerica, Mesoamerica and the Southeast the most interesting on the North American continent; this does not mean I do not like other societies: I have a CD of Paiute and Shoshone Music, I have studied the Chumash Language and I find Inuit naval technology very intriguing. But living in a cramped mat lodge in the Interior Plateau cannot compete with enjoying running water and spacious, ornate apartment buildings in Teotihuacan or the elaborate Potlatch-based economies and comfortable longhouses of the Kwakwaka'wakw.


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25 Jan 2012, 3:51 pm

Abgal64 wrote:
Though I respect Lakota Culture in many respects, such as for its resisting Western Imperialism and its sustainable lifestyle, I think that you are making a gross generalization of the Indigenous Peoples of North America: "All over North America" includes the great cities of Tenochtitlan, Mutal/Tikal, Teotihuacan, Cahokia, &c., not just nomadic, animistic societies like the Lakhota. Even the peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast were settled and stratified in chiefdoms, if not in states as in the Mississippians or the Mixtecs. I honestly find the more complex societies of the PNW coast, Oasisamerica, Mesoamerica and the Southeast the most interesting on the North American continent; this does not mean I do not like other societies: I have a CD of Paiute and Shoshone Music, I have studied the Chumash Language and I find Inuit naval technology very intriguing. But living in a cramped mat lodge in the Interior Plateau cannot compete with enjoying running water and spacious, ornate apartment buildings in Teotihuacan or the elaborate Potlatch-based economies and comfortable longhouses of the Kwakwaka'wakw.


Where are all these wonderful cultures now?

The Last One Standing is the Winner.

ruveyn



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25 Jan 2012, 3:59 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Abgal64 wrote:
Though I respect Lakota Culture in many respects, such as for its resisting Western Imperialism and its sustainable lifestyle, I think that you are making a gross generalization of the Indigenous Peoples of North America: "All over North America" includes the great cities of Tenochtitlan, Mutal/Tikal, Teotihuacan, Cahokia, &c., not just nomadic, animistic societies like the Lakhota. Even the peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast were settled and stratified in chiefdoms, if not in states as in the Mississippians or the Mixtecs. I honestly find the more complex societies of the PNW coast, Oasisamerica, Mesoamerica and the Southeast the most interesting on the North American continent; this does not mean I do not like other societies: I have a CD of Paiute and Shoshone Music, I have studied the Chumash Language and I find Inuit naval technology very intriguing. But living in a cramped mat lodge in the Interior Plateau cannot compete with enjoying running water and spacious, ornate apartment buildings in Teotihuacan or the elaborate Potlatch-based economies and comfortable longhouses of the Kwakwaka'wakw.


Where are all these wonderful cultures now?

The Last One Standing is the Winner.

ruveyn


meh,

winning implies a universally set goal,
something i think is far to premature to conclude.


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25 Jan 2012, 4:02 pm

ruveyn wrote:
bitterbonker wrote:

The point, however, is not to judge herbal remedies by the standards of modern medicine, or the efficacy of the properties of individual chemical compounds, but to recognize that native people experienced and assessed the powers of plants in consistent ways. Certain plants always produced certain results. To the Indian, the cause was not chemical, but the inherent spiritual power of the plant as a living being.


There is only one way to judge any medicine or medical procedure. By the results. If an issue cannot be settled empirically it is nonsense.

ruveyn


Perhaps you missed almost the entire preceding part of the post, which talks about the Indians’ "pragmatic, accurate, and vast" knowledge of herbal remedies, "long-range planning, knowledge, and skill" and a "scientific process of observation, hypothesis, and experiment."

As for your second remark, "The Last One Standing is the winner", I'm not surprised you would say such a thing, as it reflects the spirit of Western imperialist culture. Once again, I refer you back to the text I posted:

"All living things are connected... it is impossible for any single being to exist without the connections it has to many other beings."



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25 Jan 2012, 4:04 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Abgal64 wrote:
Though I respect Lakota Culture in many respects, such as for its resisting Western Imperialism and its sustainable lifestyle, I think that you are making a gross generalization of the Indigenous Peoples of North America: "All over North America" includes the great cities of Tenochtitlan, Mutal/Tikal, Teotihuacan, Cahokia, &c., not just nomadic, animistic societies like the Lakhota. Even the peoples of the Pacific Northwest Coast were settled and stratified in chiefdoms, if not in states as in the Mississippians or the Mixtecs. I honestly find the more complex societies of the PNW coast, Oasisamerica, Mesoamerica and the Southeast the most interesting on the North American continent; this does not mean I do not like other societies: I have a CD of Paiute and Shoshone Music, I have studied the Chumash Language and I find Inuit naval technology very intriguing. But living in a cramped mat lodge in the Interior Plateau cannot compete with enjoying running water and spacious, ornate apartment buildings in Teotihuacan or the elaborate Potlatch-based economies and comfortable longhouses of the Kwakwaka'wakw.


Where are all these wonderful cultures now?

The Last One Standing is the Winner.

ruveyn


And in another hundred years or so America will likely be exactly like those old cultures.

It's way to early to say anything is won yet.


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25 Jan 2012, 4:15 pm

Visagrunt- Thanks for your contribution. Yes, many drugs are based on the synthetic, isolated compounds of herbal indigenous remedies. I will say that some of the practices that are believed to have led certain cultures to this wisdom would be considered to be of a "spiritual" basis. For example, under certain criteria, many cultures considered dreams to provide accurate, empirical knowledge. The fact that many of the resulting insights are being "confirmed", or just discovered, by Western science would tend to give them credibility in the eyes of the (open-minded) skeptic (such as myself).

Abgal64- Thank you too. I will say that, though the basic principles seem to apply almost universally to indigenous cultures worldwide, it's also important to note that there were thousands of distinct cultures just in the Americas, and that these cultures themselves evolved over time. For example, the numerous tribes of the Plains Indians changed drastically in response to European disruption--they became more nebulous and nomadic, in part as a defense against introduced diseases, and also as a result of the (re)introduction of the horse to the Americas, etc.



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26 Jan 2012, 12:07 am

bitterbonker wrote:
Abgal64- Thank you too. I will say that, though the basic principles seem to apply almost universally to indigenous cultures worldwide, it's also important to note that there were thousands of distinct cultures just in the Americas, and that these cultures themselves evolved over time. For example, the numerous tribes of the Plains Indians changed drastically in response to European disruption--they became more nebulous and nomadic, in part as a defense against introduced diseases, and also as a result of the (re)introduction of the horse to the Americas, etc.
Indeed, there are many distinct peoples from Oasisamerica (Taos, Navajo, Apache, Kiowa, Fremont, Ancient Pueblo, &c.), in the PNW coast (Tshimshan, Nuxálk, Nuu-chah-nulth, Tlingit, &c.), Mesoamerica (Mixtec, Mexica, Maya, Teotihuacano, Olmec, &c.)... that does not mean their are not clear similarities and cultural areas: Much as Albania, France, Rome and Byzantium all fall into the Western cultural sphere and Shōwa Japan, Song China and Nguyễn Vietnam fall into the Chinese cultural sphere (or the Sinosphere), so too do the Shasta, Karuk, Yokuts, Ohlone, Maidu and Chumash, among others, fall into the Californian cultural sphere.

By the way, I am starting to learn an Indigenous American Language, though it is from South America, not North America: Quechua, language of the Inkas and their empire, Tawantinsuyu, as I write this do to my desire to become an Andeanist after I get a PhD in the subject. It truly is a splendid language in its perfect regularity (even the pronouns decline like nouns!) and is spoken by more people today than all the Celtic Languages combined as of now.


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26 Jan 2012, 12:19 am

Thomas Minchin wrote:
And try as hard as I like,
A small crack appears
In my diplomacy-dike.
“By definition”, I begin
“Alternative Medicine”, I continue
“Has either not been proved to work,
Or been proved not to work.
You know what they call “alternative medicine”
That’s been proved to work?
Medicine."


[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhGuXCuDb1U[/youtube]


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26 Jan 2012, 12:35 am

I have a great respect for native Americans and have very similar beliefs.
They were very pantheistic and had a great respect for all living creatures.

The only reason why their culture died is because of imperialism and European colonizations.
They are way ahead of us in many ways.
Humans are just a tiny part of nature and until modern society understands this we will kill our earth and eventually kill humanity.
If ther were a religion that was similar to their's then I would be a devoted follower.


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26 Jan 2012, 2:29 am

hyperlexian wrote:
Thomas Minchin wrote:
And try as hard as I like,
A small crack appears
In my diplomacy-dike.
“By definition”, I begin
“Alternative Medicine”, I continue
“Has either not been proved to work,
Or been proved not to work.
You know what they call “alternative medicine”
That’s been proved to work?
Medicine."


Indigenous people were often recorded to live well past 100 with hardly any of the signs of degeneration we call 'aging'. This was chiefly because of their lifestyles and diet, including the use of herbal medicine. The disruption of their traditional ways of life made them susceptible to European "crowd diseases". The historical high mortality rate of Western societies was due to conditions like overcrowding, pollution, malnutrition and stress--the sorts of conditions that have been imposed on indigenous peoples of the "third world" by Western petro-military-industrial-pharmaceutical cartels...

This is not to say that Western medicine doesn't have a place--particularly with regards to emergency treatment--but it's just ignorant to say that "natural" medicine is ineffective. You clearly have no experience with it. It IS.

That's a clever video, but at the end of the day, it's easy to tear down something (to your own satisfaction) that you don't understand. Maybe Tom should take his own advice and actually learn something.



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26 Jan 2012, 7:47 am

bitterbonker wrote:

Indigenous people were often recorded to live well past 100 with hardly any of the signs of degeneration we call 'aging'.


What is the statistical frequency of this longevity. In industrial societies, some people live long enough to have 3 digit ages, too. And they do not rely on herbal medicine. I think it is a matter of genetics, not herbs.

ruveyn



Last edited by ruveyn on 26 Jan 2012, 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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26 Jan 2012, 8:29 am

let me put the video into perspective. i studied the traditional first nations use of edible and medicinal plants in my province for many years, even to such a degree that when i worked as a teacher on a reserve/reservation i taught it to THEIR children. i am able to understand the information and even utilise it to some degree without putting first nations traditions onto some sort of pedestal. ultimately they were just people who used the best means to hand in order to treat disease.


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