Would you say that Idealism could explain ESP?

Page 1 of 1 [ 13 posts ] 

donnie_darko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,981

28 Jan 2012, 8:59 pm

If matter is the product of mind, as the idealists say, contrary to the belief of mainstream science that mind is a function of matter, couldn't that pretty much explain all psychic phenomena?

Telekinetics could be explained because the mind would be focused in a way that it could shape the collective physical reality. Telepathy works because mind is more fundamental than matter itself, and also linked together since all mind is really one.



Awesomelyglorious
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Dec 2005
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,157
Location: Omnipresent

28 Jan 2012, 10:14 pm

I'll agree with the idea that ESP makes more sense under Idealism. I'll disagree that we need an explanation for ESP, as ESP phenomena are considered a set of parapsychology ideas, and parapsychology is pretty much not respected in the discipline.



abacacus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,380

28 Jan 2012, 10:19 pm

It would indeed explain psychic phenomena, but despite how interesting idealism is I can't bring myself to take it seriously.


_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.


donnie_darko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,981

28 Jan 2012, 10:43 pm

abacacus wrote:
It would indeed explain psychic phenomena, but despite how interesting idealism is I can't bring myself to take it seriously.


Explain why, I'm interested in why you would consider a materialist explanation more likely.



abacacus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,380

28 Jan 2012, 10:50 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
abacacus wrote:
It would indeed explain psychic phenomena, but despite how interesting idealism is I can't bring myself to take it seriously.


Explain why, I'm interested in why you would consider a materialist explanation more likely.


The philosophy of idealism in general just seems a bit... cooky to me. That matter exists because the mind exists. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me.


_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.


donnie_darko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,981

28 Jan 2012, 10:51 pm

abacacus wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
abacacus wrote:
It would indeed explain psychic phenomena, but despite how interesting idealism is I can't bring myself to take it seriously.


Explain why, I'm interested in why you would consider a materialist explanation more likely.


The philosophy of idealism in general just seems a bit... cooky to me. That matter exists because the mind exists. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me.


Well think of it this way ... the only thing you can be 100 percent sure exists is your own mind. In theory (of course, it's not true), the whole Universe can just be a dream.



abacacus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,380

28 Jan 2012, 10:52 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
abacacus wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
abacacus wrote:
It would indeed explain psychic phenomena, but despite how interesting idealism is I can't bring myself to take it seriously.


Explain why, I'm interested in why you would consider a materialist explanation more likely.


The philosophy of idealism in general just seems a bit... cooky to me. That matter exists because the mind exists. It just doesn't make any logical sense to me.


Well think of it this way ... the only thing you can be 100 percent sure exists is your own mind. In theory (of course, it's not true), the whole Universe can just be a dream.


It's a fascinating idea, don't get me wrong, I just can't seem to make it click in my head.


_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.


donnie_darko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,981

28 Jan 2012, 10:53 pm

abacacus wrote:
It's a fascinating idea, don't get me wrong, I just can't seem to make it click in my head.


Yup, same with me and materialism. I have a difficult time accepting the possibility that the Universe is all random and that the mind is just a chance result of some chemical reaction. But different strokes eh? :D



abacacus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,380

28 Jan 2012, 10:55 pm

donnie_darko wrote:
abacacus wrote:
It's a fascinating idea, don't get me wrong, I just can't seem to make it click in my head.


Yup, same with me and materialism. I have a difficult time accepting the possibility that the Universe is all random and that the mind is just a chance result of some chemical reaction. But different strokes eh? :D


Indeed, perhaps some day we can find out for certain.


_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.


donnie_darko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,981

28 Jan 2012, 10:58 pm

abacacus wrote:

Indeed, perhaps some day we can find out for certain.


That's a great idea for a new thread ... if the idealism vs materialism debate, which really is what the science vs religion debate boils down to (I'm not 'religious' but I consider idealism and spirituality to be approximately the same thing) will ever be solved or agreed upon.

Though a lot of atheists claim materialism has been proven already, I don't personally buy that as I think there are a lot of flaws to that argument and the topic is still very much a true mystery.



abacacus
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,380

28 Jan 2012, 10:59 pm

"Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."


_________________
A shot gun blast into the face of deceit
You'll gain your just reward.
We'll not rest until the purge is complete
You will reap what you've sown.


donnie_darko
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Nov 2009
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,981

28 Jan 2012, 11:01 pm

abacacus wrote:
"Now my own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose."


Well it did give birth to Adam Lambert.



purchase
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2010
Age: 38
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,385

29 Jan 2012, 1:56 am

Yes it could. I think it could be conceived of in a scientific way too. All the matter in the universe is linked, we are just copies of one original thing with changes made to the copies. If something is exactly identical it's the same. In the way that A = A. Unless things are endlessly divisible and differentiable by context in which case there is absolutely no shared understanding of anything at all, ESP or observable communication. But going on the premise that any communication (confirmation of shared reality) ever holds any weight, things are not endlessly divisible and identical things are an indistinguishable unit that can be in different places and times at once. The information could easily make its way to a specific human's consciousness (I'll have to think more about the exact route but something about the person displaying ESP having a brain that makes more connections between things, I don't know about brain structure but I think having a brain with many more pathways between neurons which increases the likelihood of hitting on an arrangement which is the same as in some other portion of the universe) where it appears to be at odds with what the human could possibly have gathered in the observable ways.

Anyway yeah I can't wrap my mind around materialism either, Idealism makes intuitive sense to me.