Are Rich People Unethical?

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pandabear
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28 Feb 2012, 11:15 am

http://news.yahoo.com/rich-people-uneth ... -news.html

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At last, an explanation for Wall Street's disgrace, Bernard Madoff's Ponzi scheme and other high-society crimes and misdemeanors: A new study published in the Proceedings of that National Academy of Sciences found that wealthier people were more apt to behave unethically than those who had less money.

Scientists at the University of California at Berkeley analyzed a person's rank in society (measured by wealth, occupational prestige and education) and found that those who were richer were more likely to cheat, lie and break the law than those who were poorer.

"We found that it is much more prevalent for people in the higher ranks of society to see greed and self-interest … as good pursuits," said Paul Piff, lead author of the study and a doctoral candidate at Berkeley. "This resonates with a lot of current events these days."

In the first of two studies, researchers found that those who drove more expensive cars (an admittedly questionable indicator of economic worth) were more likely to cut off other cars and pedestrians at a busy San Francisco four-way intersection than those who drove older, less-expensive vehicles.

In other experiments, wealthier study participants were more likely to admit they would behave unethically in a variety of situations and lie during negotiations. In another, researchers found wealthier people were more likely to cheat in an online game to win a $50 prize.

Greed is a "robust" determinant of unethical behavior, according to the study.

"This has some pretty clear implications," said Piff. "Inequality is very much on Americans' minds, and the potential effects of severe inequality on individual levels of behavior are major."

Large sums of money may give people greater feelings of entitlement, causing those people to be the most averse to wealth distribution, Piff continued. Poorer people may be less likely to cheat, because they are more dependent on their community at large, he said. In other words, they don't want to rock the boat.

"People in power who are more inclined to behave unethically in the service of gains and self-interest can have great effects on society as a whole," said Piff.

And it's difficult to say whether richer people get to the top because of their unethical behavior or whether wealth causes people to become this way. "It seems like a vicious cycle," he said.

Nevertheless, Piff said these results obviously don't apply to all wealthy people. He noted that Bill Gates and Warren Buffett were among the wealthiest people in the world and also the most philanthropic. He also pointed to high rates of violent crime in the poorest neighborhoods in the country that counteract the study's findings.

Piff said he hoped to further his research by figuring out ways to curb these patterns of behavior among wealthier individuals.

"What it comes down to, really, is that money creates more of a self-focus, which may account for larger feelings of entitlement," said Piff. "We hope to further study how we can curb these patterns and how that will affect our social environment."

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28 Feb 2012, 11:56 am

Think Your Boss Is a Psychopath? That May Be True

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Think your boss is a psychopath? That may scientifically be true

goodwitchy
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28 Feb 2012, 12:29 pm

I'm sure studies can prove that some/many rich people are unethical (not all);
but I'm sure there are many unethical middle class and poor people as well. Maybe that sounds odd coming from someone with my political leanings? (Bernie Sanders (I) is my hero, but if Buddy Roemer (R) became the GOP nominee, I'd probably vote for him.)

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enrico_dandolo
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28 Feb 2012, 12:44 pm

I would say yes, but not for this reason.

Peter Singer says it better than I.

goodwitchy wrote:

The point is, these studies compare both, and conclude that more rich people are unethical.

marshall
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28 Feb 2012, 12:47 pm

I bet it depends on the type of rich person. I'd expect entrepreneurial types who developed their own product or service to be more ethical than corporate middle managers and CEO's who simply stepped all over others to get to their position and who take pleasure in bossing others around. I'd also expect the later type to be more prominent in the financial sector. They are the true parasites of society.

Jacoby
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28 Feb 2012, 12:53 pm

I doubt they're any more unethical than poor and or middle class people on average.

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28 Feb 2012, 1:07 pm

marshall wrote:

QFT

maybe its the competetive nature of modern corporate structure,?
many creative or directly constructive companies maintain a much more lax hierarchy and less administration compared to the size of the company.

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CrazyCatLord
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28 Feb 2012, 1:17 pm

The causal relation probably runs the other way around, meaning that unethical people are more likely to get rich.

But it might work both ways. People who are willing to sell their own grandmother are usually the ones who rise to the top, but ethical and compassionate people also turn into selfish bastards when they come into money. Who needs friends if you have admirers and servants? Why be nice to anybody if you can buy respect, pseudo-friendship and sex? Nobody should have that kind of power and influence over others, imho. It can corrupt even the best people.

enrico_dandolo
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28 Feb 2012, 1:18 pm

I think this study has a major flaw: it concludes "immorality" on the basis of greed. The "greed variable" is not exactly neutral to the "wealth variable". It is not very conclusive for anything except saying "rich people are greedy", which, as it admits, may be why they are rich in the first place. In any case, one only needs to look at how much rich and poor people give to charity to know that: rich people give a smaller portion of their revenue, even though poor people already use most of theirs for vital needs (rent, food, etc.). Of course, there is the car study, but that looks flawed.

It would be more interesting to see a comparison between wealth levels for things that are unrelated.

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28 Feb 2012, 1:21 pm

enrico_dandolo wrote:

I would say yes, but not for this reason.

Peter Singer says it better than I.

goodwitchy wrote:

The point is, these studies compare both, and conclude that more rich people are unethical.

Perhaps, but I am aware that my particular job is dependent on consumerism. I think it would be nice if very rich people used some of their wealth to help society, but I think it is, and should be their choice.

In response to the Peter Singer video, I understand his point of view, however, there is always someone in the world who is less fortunate than ourselves.... as an example, when I go to the food store, should I argue that I shouldn't buy a piece of fish for dinner; instead maybe just a can of soup - or starve, because there are starving people in the world? I'm not a saint, but I am keenly aware of what he's stating.

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Last edited by goodwitchy on 28 Feb 2012, 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Sweetleaf
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28 Feb 2012, 1:24 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:

^this

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CrazyCatLord
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28 Feb 2012, 1:25 pm

This reminds me:

A banker photographed the lunch bill of his boss. Nice, isn't it? A 1% tip to show his contempt for the 99%. The added snide comment is quite ironic, considering that waiters and waitresses have a very real job, whereas Wall Street bankers are about as useful to society as a turd on the sidewalk and have probably never done a honest day's work in their life.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/2 ... for-the-99

Oodain
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28 Feb 2012, 1:32 pm

enrico_dandolo wrote:

as i see it it correlates unethical behavior with greed and it shows some correlation between greed and wealth,(a higher amount of filthy rich people are what others would call greedy, not all filthy reach people are greedy)

as such does it actually say anything about wealth?
or only greed? adn where to find a hihger prevelance of that greed

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28 Feb 2012, 1:38 pm

CrazyCatLord wrote:

This reminds me:

A banker photographed the lunch bill of his boss. Nice, isn't it? A 1% tip to show his contempt for the 99%. The added snide comment is quite ironic, considering that waiters and waitresses have a very real job, whereas Wall Street bankers are about as useful to society as a turd on the sidewalk and have probably never done a honest day's work in their life.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/02/2 ... for-the-99

That's just disgusting, how about if all the waitresses quit, then I bet this individual would whine about not having anyone to serve them food.

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pandabear
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28 Feb 2012, 1:51 pm

^ That may have been a hoax http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/trending-no ... 56900.html

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28 Feb 2012, 2:08 pm

Some are unethical and some are not. Exactly the same could be said of non-rich people.

The fact that someone is richer than his neighbor does not imply he take his wealth dishonestly from his neighbor. Who did Steve Jobs rob, for example.

If there is a blame to be assigned then it is the chummy relation between some of the very rich and the government. Don't blame rich folk for bribing government people without blaming government people for taking the bribe. It takes two to tango.
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