Betty Bowers wants you to Join the Party!

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27 Mar 2012, 10:41 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMp98aM-Svg&feature=g-all-u&context=G2e21095FAAAAAAAAJAA[/youtube]

It's just a grand old party, isn't it?

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ruveyn
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27 Mar 2012, 11:26 am

Lord_Gareth wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMp98aM-Svg&feature=g-all-u&context=G2e21095FAAAAAAAAJAA[/youtube]

It's just a grand old party, isn't it?

How is this any worse than the Democrat Liberals telling us the we owe every shiftless bum alive a living?

ruveyn

Lord_Gareth
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27 Mar 2012, 11:30 am

ruveyn wrote:

Lord_Gareth wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMp98aM-Svg&feature=g-all-u&context=G2e21095FAAAAAAAAJAA[/youtube]

It's just a grand old party, isn't it?

How is this any worse than the Democrat Liberals telling us the we owe every shiftless bum alive a living?

ruveyn

Hrm, lemme think - worldview that supports the idea that everyone has a right to live, or worldview that asserts that large swaths of people deserve to die?

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Kraichgauer
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27 Mar 2012, 1:36 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Lord_Gareth wrote:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMp98aM-Svg&feature=g-all-u&context=G2e21095FAAAAAAAAJAA[/youtube]

It's just a grand old party, isn't it?

How is this any worse than the Democrat Liberals telling us the we owe every shiftless bum alive a living?

ruveyn

Hrm, lemme think - worldview that supports the idea that everyone has a right to live, or worldview that asserts that large swaths of people deserve to die?

I like that point.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
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27 Mar 2012, 2:32 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Hrm, lemme think - worldview that supports the idea that everyone has a right to live, or worldview that asserts that large swaths of people deserve to die?

Yes think. Lived and let live does not mean pay the bills. Everyone has a right to live. No one has a right to be supported. If a person cannot earn his keep he must either beg or perish.

Just because some one is hungry does not mean I am obliged to feed him.

ruveyn

Kraichgauer
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27 Mar 2012, 2:38 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Lord_Gareth wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Hrm, lemme think - worldview that supports the idea that everyone has a right to live, or worldview that asserts that large swaths of people deserve to die?

Don't all Abrahamic traditions say we are obliged to care for our less fortunate brothers and sisters?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

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27 Mar 2012, 3:14 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Lord_Gareth wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Hrm, lemme think - worldview that supports the idea that everyone has a right to live, or worldview that asserts that large swaths of people deserve to die?

Don't all Abrahamic traditions say we are obliged to care for our less fortunate brothers and sisters?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

Your invoking Abraham to argue with ruveyn? That is possibly the most pointless way you can possibly try to persuade him of something.

At the end of the day, whether or not we think that someone is owed a living can not be answered in the absolute, as ruveyn will try to do and as I try to do when I'm not being careful and watching what I say. It all comes down to what you base your moral system on. ruveyn bases it on personal freedom and property above all else, whereas I base it on democracy and collective welfare above all else. There is no point in us arguing over which is the better basis for a moral system because neither of us is going to change the other's minds. In particular, there is no point of me arguing, as ruveyn has had much more time to come to his conclusions than I have and thus will be even more convinced of them than I am of mine.

Kraichgauer
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27 Mar 2012, 3:37 pm

AstroGeek wrote:

Kraichgauer wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Lord_Gareth wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

Hrm, lemme think - worldview that supports the idea that everyone has a right to live, or worldview that asserts that large swaths of people deserve to die?

Don't all Abrahamic traditions say we are obliged to care for our less fortunate brothers and sisters?

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

I'm trying to appeal to the wide eyed little boy, still filled with hope, who may yet be alive beneath ruveyn's hardened, gristly hide. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

ruveyn
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28 Mar 2012, 11:16 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

I'm trying to appeal to the wide eyed little boy, still filled with hope, who may yet be alive beneath ruveyn's hardened, gristly hide. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

When I was a child, I played with childish things. Now I am grown and I have put away childish things.

I prefer Justice to Mercy. Let each be dealt with according to what he deserves (or does not deserve). I do not consider paying the freight for dead-beats the purpose of my life. If you want to be charitable, by all means do so, but at YOUR expense, not MINE.

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28 Mar 2012, 11:37 am

denouncing it as childsih is pointless and intellectually dishonest.

some countries thrive because of those differences of opinion, many would argue they are faring better than the us, even when looking at property and economic freedom.

not to mention the blatant disregard for all the factors and variables you havent taken into consideration, to think one know s the whole picture is again dishonest or delusional.

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28 Mar 2012, 11:46 am

Oodain wrote:

I am concerned with the "part of the picture" that impacts my life and that of my family. I look to my interests. Do you look to yours?

ruveyn

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28 Mar 2012, 11:58 am

ruveyn wrote:

How is this any worse than the Democrat Liberals telling us the we owe every shiftless bum alive a living?

ruveyn

Huh? The most extremely lefty things I have heard Democrat say are that health care and education should be free. Education already is. And I think Health care is such a basic thing and not really exactly a "living".

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ruveyn
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28 Mar 2012, 12:00 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

ruveyn wrote:

How is this any worse than the Democrat Liberals telling us the we owe every shiftless bum alive a living?

ruveyn

education is NOT free. It costs someone something somewhere. There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch.

To say health care is a right is to say someone can compel another person to provide him care whether or not he can pay for it. To compel a service from someone is slavery.

ruveyn

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28 Mar 2012, 12:33 pm

But basic education and health care are a right. In fact, you would be a lousy capitalist if you would like the meritocracy to be boycotted by not making it so.

Quote:

To say health care is a right is to say someone can compel another person to provide him care whether or not he can pay for it

You just have clarified that public education is not truly free. Teachers get paid, just like you mentioned. So, it is quite lame that you would attempt to say that when there is free basic healthcare doctors would be obligated to work for free. In facing my current dichotomy as to whether to head-desk or just lol at the faulty logic, I decide to LOL at you today, I am in a good mood.

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28 Mar 2012, 1:05 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Oodain wrote:

I am concerned with the "part of the picture" that impacts my life and that of my family. I look to my interests. Do you look to yours?

ruveyn

you dont have a chance of even seeing that picture, our actions have far reaching consequences when viewed en masse.

as for looking to my own interests, of course, i think most of us do.

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the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
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AstroGeek
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28 Mar 2012, 1:17 pm

Vexcalibur wrote:

But basic education and health care are a right. In fact, you would be a lousy capitalist if you would like the meritocracy to be boycotted by not making it so.

Quote:

To say health care is a right is to say someone can compel another person to provide him care whether or not he can pay for it

Unfortunately you have not. ruveyn has, on multiple occasions, criticized the concept of public education.

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