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Christian Egalitarianism?

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A_Landy
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21 May 2012, 11:51 am

What does everyone think about Christian egalitarianism?



ruveyn
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21 May 2012, 12:35 pm

A_Landy wrote:
What does everyone think about Christian egalitarianism?


As in we are all no damned good conceived of in Original Sin?

ruveyn



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21 May 2012, 7:37 pm

So long as religious people are tolerant I don't have a problem with it. And I agree with egalitarian/socialist philosophy more or less regardless of how one arrives at the conclusions (although I do think that some people are intellectually lazy in their deductions). So I have no problem with Christian egalitarianism (which I'm interpreting to refer to Gospel Socialism or people like JK Rowling) even though I'm not religious myself.



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22 May 2012, 12:23 am

I think egalitarianism was the whole idea in early Christianity - then more worldly concerns, with social standing and wealth disparity, managed to slip in.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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22 May 2012, 3:04 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
I think egalitarianism was the whole idea in early Christianity - then more worldly concerns, with social standing and wealth disparity, managed to slip in.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Humans are not equal in many important respects. Egalitarianism falls dead born from its own contradictions. What we need is equal justice, not equal people.

ruveyn



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22 May 2012, 3:12 am

I don't believe but I've read the bible. I can't recall many pleas for a completely equal society; the consensus was helping the poor throuhout the books, as a way to help yourself too. I wouldn't call it a strive for equality because social differences themselves weren't really mentioned, just a strive (if you'd try to translate it to modern society) to create a world where the lowest classes still have a decent life or at least food. I do think it states that christians should help the poor, just not erase socio-economic differences.



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22 May 2012, 3:15 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I think egalitarianism was the whole idea in early Christianity - then more worldly concerns, with social standing and wealth disparity, managed to slip in.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Humans are not equal in many important respects. Egalitarianism falls dead born from its own contradictions. What we need is equal justice, not equal people.

ruveyn


I think the whole point of egalitarianism among early Christians was that all people are of equal worth in God's eyes, even if some in everyday life are more equal than others.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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22 May 2012, 3:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

I think the whole point of egalitarianism among early Christians was that all people are of equal worth in God's eyes, even if some in everyday life are more equal than others.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Who knows what God thinks? I don't and neither do you.

What is more important how and what we think and do. Rather than ask "Does God like this?" I would ask "Is this the right thing to do?". One does not even need to be religious to ask that.

ruveyn



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22 May 2012, 3:49 am

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

I think the whole point of egalitarianism among early Christians was that all people are of equal worth in God's eyes, even if some in everyday life are more equal than others.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Who knows what God thinks? I don't and neither do you.

What is more important how and what we think and do. Rather than ask "Does God like this?" I would ask "Is this the right thing to do?". One does not even need to be religious to ask that.

ruveyn


Perhaps not, but religion and doing the right thing should walk hand in hand.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ruveyn
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22 May 2012, 11:00 am

Kraichgauer wrote:

Perhaps not, but religion and doing the right thing should walk hand in hand.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You don't say? Consider the Crusades for starters.

Consider the Pogroms in Russia all sanctioned by the Holy Russian Orthodox Church. Kill a zhid for Christ and all that.

Then there was Nazi Germany which was majority Lutheran with a significant Catholic population in the south. You seem to take your German cultural heritage seriously. In that case you should be blushing with shame.

Then there was Jolly Old England. Think upon Bloody Mary and King Henry VIII's doings. All religious folk.

Then there was the war between the Protestants and the Catholics in Europe. Who was doing the right thing? Both sides were beating up on the Jews.

You will forgive me if I find your position untenable.

ruveyn



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22 May 2012, 2:17 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Perhaps not, but religion and doing the right thing should walk hand in hand.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


You don't say? Consider the Crusades for starters.

Consider the Pogroms in Russia all sanctioned by the Holy Russian Orthodox Church. Kill a zhid for Christ and all that.

Then there was Nazi Germany which was majority Lutheran with a significant Catholic population in the south. You seem to take your German cultural heritage seriously. In that case you should be blushing with shame.

Then there was Jolly Old England. Think upon Bloody Mary and King Henry VIII's doings. All religious folk.

Then there was the war between the Protestants and the Catholics in Europe. Who was doing the right thing? Both sides were beating up on the Jews.

You will forgive me if I find your position untenable.

ruveyn


You seemed to have missed the key word of should.
Again, religion and doing the right thing should walk hand in hand. But I will always be the first to concede that they don't.
And I don't blush in shame over involvement of German Lutherans with the Nazis, because I have no direct connection to it. As a matter of fact, my whole family on both sides were all Americans for a long time by the Nazi era, and they, like most German American Lutherans were Anti-Nazi.
Seriously, I think you ought to consider that trying to make people feel guilty for the treatment of Jews by Christians will only cause resentment, and will perpetuate Antisemitism.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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22 May 2012, 2:22 pm

Sure, everyone was created equal, that's just not equal 'here'.


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22 May 2012, 3:19 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Humans are not equal in many important respects. Egalitarianism falls dead born from its own contradictions. What we need is equal justice, not equal people.

ruveyn

You seem to misunderstand what is involved in most brands of egalitarianism.



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27 May 2012, 12:36 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I think egalitarianism was the whole idea in early Christianity - then more worldly concerns, with social standing and wealth disparity, managed to slip in.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Humans are not equal in many important respects. Egalitarianism falls dead born from its own contradictions. What we need is equal justice, not equal people.

ruveyn


You must have been a teacher because I learn so much from you ruveyn. Yes equal justice, is more important to equal people.



ruveyn
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27 May 2012, 4:33 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
[
Seriously, I think you ought to consider that trying to make people feel guilty for the treatment of Jews by Christians will only cause resentment, and will perpetuate Antisemitism.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Anti-Semitism is woven into Christianity warp and woof. The New Testament seethes with it. Paul the self-hating Jew promoted it.

ruveyn



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29 May 2012, 4:18 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
[
Seriously, I think you ought to consider that trying to make people feel guilty for the treatment of Jews by Christians will only cause resentment, and will perpetuate Antisemitism.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Anti-Semitism is woven into Christianity warp and woof. The New Testament seethes with it. Paul the self-hating Jew promoted it.

ruveyn


And you seriously think most Christians today are Antisemitic? Because by making such an assumption is the same as saying that all Jews are greedy. And no, I don't believe all Jews are greedy, if that's what you're thinking.
Again, accusing Christians of being uniformly Antisemitic will only breed resentment among Christians. You Jews don't like to be stereotyped, and neither do we Gentile Christians.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer