Francois Hollande

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Just after the French election we were having a debate about Hollande's personal politics, is he really a socialist? is he really leftwing or just another Blair\Obama duping the masses?

I think the world media is now waking up to the fact that yes, he is a proper leftwing socialist and his party has full control of all arms of the French law making process.

Here is the Economist new opinion, under the headline of 'powerful as well as dangerous investors beware'
http://www.economist.com/node/21557338? ... 010184c684

Here is the guardian pointing out that the very wealthy will soon be facing a 90.5% effective tax rate on certain income
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/ju ... sfeed=true

In case you were wondering about just what a bunch of tossers the British upper class are and how much they hate the working classes:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... tlier.html

Socialists never quite adjusted to the concept of a global economy with extremely mobile "rich people" what Hollande is doing is just encouraging companies and rich people to go "f**k France" and go to other countries who are happy to take their tax income.

He was probably the best option for the French to vote for, as he's not that optimistic about the European Union's neoliberalism. Although his views on immigration and crime seem awful to me, I probably would have voted for him as a long-term investment if I lived in France. He's one of the things, along with a weak new Greek government and threats from Finland and the Netherlands about leaving the eurozone if this goes on for much longer at their expense, that will probably cause most of this rotten system to collapse in the end. Plus, it allowed me to make fun of a conservative I know who has a holiday home there.

So basically we should accept a never ending race to the bottom where the majority get screwed over by the rich who are then allowed to leave with their ill gotten gains to go and exploit another bunch of people who should of course welcome them with open arms 'because they are rich' and they deserve it for being such superior specimens of humanity?

The French discovered a different way to do things 200 years ago and the lives of the French people markedly improved from their willingness to guillotine the wealthy and confiscate their ill gotten gains.

Turns out they bleed and die just like peasants do...

To be honest, I see why people would do that. As a means of distributing resources within a society, somewhat-moderated capitalism has traditionally been most efficient. All other systems invite enormous levels of corruption. Russia's corruption, for example, didn't exactly start in 1991 That, and there has always been a division between leaders and followers in society. During the European Middle Ages, you were usually born for a life of power or born for a life of servitude. When the first elements of capitalism started flowing into the system, money became an important part of power, gradually replacing birth rights in many places. Then came a division. In some parts of Europe, popular (or populist) politicians were the ones in power, still forming a relatively closed-off group, while the higher echelons of the Communist Party in Eastern Europe had power over the other 99% of society.

In name, some systems are fairer, and some systems do indeed allow for a bit more than others. However, there is no way of bringing about a truly-equal system with mankind still here. Don't forget - the French monarchy wasn't exactly replaced by a liberal democracy in which everyone regardless of sex, race or religion could freely speak their minds without fear of persecution. And no country in the world has those characteristics even today.

Basically we should accept that there are limited resources, that the allocation of those resources in the best possible manner unfortunately has the side-effect of some people being worse off and some being better off and finally, that those who create something of value, IE something other people are willing to pay them for, deserve to keep most of their money.

The French and large parts of Europe has demonstrated that they are drunk, bi-polar sailors on shore leave with an Amex-Black and will spend other peoples money in a non-productive way. If anything, anyone who works in the public sector or are kept alive by the public sector should lose their right to vote as they are not contributing to the public pool of money, yet take more than their fair share from it.

If this side-effect is gross and obvious injustice, I think you need to define "best possible manner".

I am not aware that the human race has tried every single method of resource distribution and evaluated them all fairly so how can you claim that you know what 'the best possible manner' is?

The side effect of 'some-people being worse off and some people being better off' is a little understated, many, many people are plunged into a degrading level of poverty and a few become so rich that their wealth can be maintained and passed on to their feckless inbred offspring for a thousand years.

The problems in Europe are currently two things, a very badly designed currency and a stupid German chancellor, while the USA is splurging trillions of other peoples money to stimulate their own economy, Merkel is insisting on a Europe wide austerity that is causing the US created financial collapse to spiral out of control here.

Who exactly do you think the buyers were for those nicely packaged up sub-prime mortgages? Our banks took a much, much larger hit on those american 'exotic financial products' than they did on their own mortgage products in this country. So don't give us lectures from yourside of the pond when it was your dodgy financial products that caused the problem in the first place and you have since been droping money out of helicopters to protect americans while the Greek get austerity and social collapse.

We've tried quite a few, we spent most of our lifetime as a species trying out various forms of communism, when we lived in small family groups and tribes. We spent most the last 10 - 20000 years or so living in various forms of Laissez-Faire statism, then onto laissez-faire capitalism, then in the last 100 years or so, we've tried various forms of capitalism and socialism.

It's not every economic system, but most of them. Based on efficiency of development, I'd dare say that the last 50 - 100 years have been the most effective.




And quite a lot live their lives as the middle-class of a country. This strikes me as a giant leap forward from previous times where the middle-class didn't exist.



The Euro would have been a good idea if there was a joint Financial department for the whole zone. Currently, everyone is using Germany's Mastercard, and have been using since the Euro was put into printing.

Merkel is more concerned about her own political life and her party than Europe to be honest. There is no doubt that part of the reason is that the financial downside is largely on Germany though. Then again, Hollande was elected based on some fairly insane statements.

Also, I'm not American.

I am unaware that a race to the bottom is necessary. Now, there are issues with a freer labor market and poverty, but if growth continues, we'll likely see people get better off as labor market conditions continue to improve.


The French revolution really isn't a huge sign of the success of French society. I mean.... the entire period was one of political instability, mass-murder, and horrendous warfare. I agree that a nobility-based economic system is pretty terrible, but the French Revolution is considered a horror, not a success.

Yes and no, if you have ten euro's in your pocket that is fine and you can confidently spend that ten euro's in Greece or Germany no problem.

The issue is that the market assumed Greek debt, denominated in euro's was now just as good as German debt denominated in euro's. They assumed an implicit guarantee even though no explicit guarantee ever existed.

The current euro bond suggestion is an explicit guarantee and that really would be the equivalent of Greece using Germany's mastercard instead of the stupidity of traders and politicians.

Nothing wrong with the single currency for people doing trade or useful things in the economy, it is only the peddlers of debt that are cause problems.



In the long run Germany is much better off being the rich state in the euro than it is either going it alone or trying to hobble Europe. It's growth export markets are in the East not Southern/Eastern Europe.

What 'insane statements'' do you mean, the examples I gave are policies being implemented not embarrassing pre-election promises.

I think the anti-monarchist left in Britain romanticise the French revolution because we had a Restoration after our revolution which strengthened the position of the elite more than ever. The French have a much more egalitarian civil life than the British. Basically, we romanticise the long term effects of the French Revolution, rather than the event itself.

It's not just that, historically the elites in Europe had much more in common with each other than with the oppressed masses, the French revolution scared the living crap out of the elites and inspired the masses across the continent. An awful lot of social progress would have simply been stamped on as per usual if the elites were not scared of a popular uprising and guillotine in their future if they carried on treating their populations in such a poor fashion.

In my eyes they also get bonus points for sacking Rome and arresting the pope to settle once and for all just how much authority the he has. Turned out not much...