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kxmode
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22 Jun 2012, 12:43 am

The simple answer is yes, but considering all of you are very learned individuals a longer answer is provided.

The Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה is found 6,828 times in the Hebrew text. In Hebrew this divine name is pronounced Yahweh, while in English it is pronounced Jehovah (much like your name would be pronounced different, and even spelled differently, in another language).

I direct you to Matthew 22:34-40. I'll use the King James Version since this is the translation many are familiar with most, but you are welcome to use any translation. It reads:

Quote:
"But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?" Jesus said unto him, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.""


It is worth noting what the pharisee asked Jesus. He asked “which is the great commandment in the law?” Of which law was the pharisee referring to? As a member of the Sanhedrin, or Jewish high court, he would have been referring to the Torah (what the Jews call the first five books of the bible). If you look at Jesus reply he was quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5. In the original Hebrew writings the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה appears.

Image

Based on the scriptural evidence presented what logical conclusion would you make? Would you say "Lord thy God" or "Jehovah thy God"? You could logically conclude Jesus said “You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind” because Jehovah's name appears in the scripture he quoted. Very plainly Jesus disclosed to that pharisee, and all those present, that it was to Jehovah God, not himself, that all worship must go.

When Christians read the bible and see LORD and GOD most believe this to be Jesus. Do they understand why LORD and GOD appears instead of Jehovah? Likely they do not. So why does "Lord thy God" appear? The replacing of God's name with titles such as Adhonai (LORD) or Elohim (GOD) originally came from a Jewish superstitious beliefs that exists down to this day. Unfortunately they misunderstood the commandment "You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way" (Exodus 20:7) As a point of fact they took that commandment to the extreme and never uttered the divine name, which is why the exact pronunciation of the divine name is unknown today.

Going back to the bible, Jesus' apostles quoted many Hebrew scriptures where the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה appears, thus they would have written and used God's name Jehovah (or the Hebrew equivalent). That is why Jehovah appears in the Christian-Greek scriptures of the New World Translation; a bible primarily used by Jehovah's Witnesses today. Here are a few examples:

(Galatians 3:6) Just as Abraham “put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”

(James 2:23) and the scripture was fulfilled which says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness”

Both the apostle Paul and James quoted Genesis 15:6 which reads, “And he put faith in Jehovah; and he proceeded to count it to him as righteousness.” In the original Hebrew writings the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה appears.

Image

(Romans 15:9-11) Just as it is written: . . . “Praise Jehovah, all YOU nations, and let all the peoples praise him.”

Paul again was quoting Psalms 117:1 which reads, “Praise Jehovah, all YOU nations; Commend him, all YOU clans.” Again, in the original Hebrew writings the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה appears.

Image

By seeing God's name in both the Hebrew and Christian-Greek scriptures this brings the whole book into harmony and echos the words of the apostle Paul, "All Scripture is inspired of God." Because only through this harmony is the bible "beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16)

It is not my intention to post this information to "proselytize" anyone. I am merely posting this information as a basic bible truth. You can do with it what you wish. I hope you will look into the bible, past what the churches teach, to what Paul called "the accurate knowledge of the truth". (Titus 1:1)


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redrobin62
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22 Jun 2012, 2:29 am

All I know is if some people came knocking on my door to sell me some stupid pamphlets I have a surprise for them!



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22 Jun 2012, 6:28 am

Every Jewish kid knows god's name. YHWH

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22 Jun 2012, 6:39 am

I don't know, did Jesus tell everyone his dad was named Cthulhu? If not, then he did not reveal the name of God


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22 Jun 2012, 10:08 am

I thought the name was Bruce.



ruveyn
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22 Jun 2012, 11:37 am

kxmode wrote:
The simple answer is yes, but considering all of you are very learned individuals a longer answer is provided.

The Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה is found 6,828 times in the Hebrew text. In Hebrew this divine name is pronounced Yahweh, while in English it is pronounced Jehovah (much like your name would be pronounced different, and even spelled differently, in another language).

I direct you to Matthew 22:34-40. I'll use the King James Version since this is the translation many are familiar with most, but you are welcome to use any translation. It reads:

Quote:
"But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, "Master, which is the great commandment in the law?" Jesus said unto him, "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.""


It is worth noting what the pharisee asked Jesus. He asked “which is the great commandment in the law?” Of which law was the pharisee referring to? As a member of the Sanhedrin, or Jewish high court, he would have been referring to the Torah (what the Jews call the first five books of the bible). If you look at Jesus reply he was quoting from Deuteronomy 6:5. In the original Hebrew writings the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה appears.

Image

Based on the scriptural evidence presented what logical conclusion would you make? Would you say "Lord thy God" or "Jehovah thy God"? You could logically conclude Jesus said “You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind” because Jehovah's name appears in the scripture he quoted. Very plainly Jesus disclosed to that pharisee, and all those present, that it was to Jehovah God, not himself, that all worship must go.

When Christians read the bible and see LORD and GOD most believe this to be Jesus. Do they understand why LORD and GOD appears instead of Jehovah? Likely they do not. So why does "Lord thy God" appear? The replacing of God's name with titles such as Adhonai (LORD) or Elohim (GOD) originally came from a Jewish superstitious beliefs that exists down to this day. Unfortunately they misunderstood the commandment "You must not take up the name of Jehovah your God in a worthless way" (Exodus 20:7) As a point of fact they took that commandment to the extreme and never uttered the divine name, which is why the exact pronunciation of the divine name is unknown today.

Going back to the bible, Jesus' apostles quoted many Hebrew scriptures where the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה appears, thus they would have written and used God's name Jehovah (or the Hebrew equivalent). That is why Jehovah appears in the Christian-Greek scriptures of the New World Translation; a bible primarily used by Jehovah's Witnesses today. Here are a few examples:

(Galatians 3:6) Just as Abraham “put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.”

(James 2:23) and the scripture was fulfilled which says: “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness”

Both the apostle Paul and James quoted Genesis 15:6 which reads, “And he put faith in Jehovah; and he proceeded to count it to him as righteousness.” In the original Hebrew writings the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה appears.

Image

(Romans 15:9-11) Just as it is written: . . . “Praise Jehovah, all YOU nations, and let all the peoples praise him.”

Paul again was quoting Psalms 117:1 which reads, “Praise Jehovah, all YOU nations; Commend him, all YOU clans.” Again, in the original Hebrew writings the Hebrew Tetragrammaton יהוה appears.

Image

By seeing God's name in both the Hebrew and Christian-Greek scriptures this brings the whole book into harmony and echos the words of the apostle Paul, "All Scripture is inspired of God." Because only through this harmony is the bible "beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness" (2 Timothy 3:16)

It is not my intention to post this information to "proselytize" anyone. I am merely posting this information as a basic bible truth. You can do with it what you wish. I hope you will look into the bible, past what the churches teach, to what Paul called "the accurate knowledge of the truth". (Titus 1:1)


YHWH. By convention is not pronounced except by the High Priest in the Holy of Holies on the day of atonement. It is Hebrew for Yah'weh, (he will be be). Sometimes rendered as Jehovah in English.

You should not confuse the (bad) English translations of the Jewish Scriptures (which are in Hebrew and Aramaic) with the scriptures themselves. That is what happens when you goyim get a hold of Jewish writings. You screw them up.

ruveyn



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22 Jun 2012, 11:50 am

Yeah, but nowadays you have the odd experience of huge numbers of goyim absolutely loving you to death, as a result of getting ahold of your holy writings.



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22 Jun 2012, 12:24 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
All I know is if some people came knocking on my door to sell me some stupid pamphlets I have a surprise for them!

Actual working knowledge of the Bible works better in my experience. Once a "Witness" figures out you're trying to teach him or her, they'll run for the door. It seems to be more frightening than a 12-gauge.

They always get me in the parking lot as of late. One time it was at McDonald's. I'd been playing at "Mr. Mom" while my wife was out of town, so I figured a quick breakfast would be a perfect start to the day. I was so busy trying to get my kids in their car seats when a woman seemed to appear out of nowhere and said, "Here-take-this." I looked on the back for publisher info and saw the tell-tale Watchtower address and handed it right back.

Another time I'd done some quick grocery shopping and a lady tried to pull the same stunt on me. By this point I'm a little bit quicker than I was the last time, so the first thing I ask is, "ok, and who are you with?" She had to say "Jehovah's Witnesses." So I ask a little question--"What does John 1:1 say?" She had a hard time with it, but she did manage to get out the last bit, which was what I was looking for: "...and was a god." We get into a very brief discussion on the divinity of Jesus and whether He was a created being, and also touched on the unitarian heresy. We bid each other a good day and that was that.

In the McDonald's episode, it took me a little bit more time to regain my spiritual bearings, but I managed to do the same thing. In that instance, the lady was quicker to pick up on where I was going, whereas the Kroger encounter I had to explain myself a little more.

I count those as good, positive opportunities to witness to unbelievers, brief though they may be. In both instances they asked me why I wouldn't take their tracts. I knew I had at best 30 seconds to teach them some Biblical truth. They do not wish to be taught by non-Witnesses, so every second a believer has with them in a teachable moment is precious. I'm hoping one day to maybe write up some tracts of my own that I can keep in my car, my Bible, or my pocket that I can hand out to Witnesses to point out the heresies of their religion.

...

The OP here is pretty revealing of some of the motivation of Witnesses. It has all appearances of wanting to be accurate. And it is up to a point, which is that Yahweh is the Name of El Elohim. If a Witness purports to be a witness to the Name, shouldn't they be called Yahweh's Witnesses? "Jesus" is an anglicization of Iesous, which closely resembles Yeshua. "Jehovah" sounds nothing like "Yahweh," but it is in common usage. There's nothing wrong with wanting to get Yahweh's name right. But this example illustrates a common feature of cult practices, specifically a heavy dependence upon scriptural triviality. Sure, I take no issue with proper reverence to the Name. But the Name is not the most important message of the Christian Bible. It is that Jesus, who is Yahweh in the flesh, died for our sins and will one day return to establish His kingdom for all believers. There is no "organization" that has a monopoly on the Name, on Jesus, or on eternity. The only question that really matters is whether someone places his faith in Christ.

And that is really the whole point of the OP, which is that faith is NOT to be placed in Jesus' atoning sacrifice.

Luke 18:18-19 says: A ruler asked Him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" "Why do you call Me good?" Jesus asked him. "No one is good but One--God."

It's a test. If the ruler is claiming that Jesus is good, and if no one is good but God (Yahweh, though the original Greek renders it Theos), then it logically follows that the ruler is, perhaps unknowingly, claiming that Jesus is God. Jesus is challenging him to see if he really understands what he's saying by calling Jesus "good," because in doing so he's acknowledging that Jesus is God (or whichever name you choose here, and there are many--not just Yahweh. El/Elohim/God/Theos suffices for simplicity, and most of us just say "God"). Jesus' concern here is whether the ruler actually believes that He is God. If you read on, of course, you'll know that the ruler didn't really have that kind of faith.

There are other statements to support the concept of Jesus and God being One as well as the Holy Spirit being another person within the Holy Trinity.

And that's where posts like this one from the OP become problematic. There are just enough facts in this to be dangerous, and there are often Christians who fall for it. It's when it's said "that it was to Jehovah God, not himself, that all worship must go" that the post really becomes a problem. If Jesus is God, then it's perfectly appropriate to worship Jesus. The name "Jesus" really just comes from root words that mean "God (Yahweh) saves."

Also problematic is using a supposed Jewish superstition in support. It's plainly written in Torah that misuse of the Name demands the life of the blasphemer. Only certain people can even speak it, and even then only at certain times, though it is oft written in scripture. Adonai and Elohim are perfectly fitting descriptive names that can be adequately substituted, and they appear throughout the OT. The pronunciation of the Name survived through the Samaritans, so it's not entirely unknown.

It's really a whole lot of facts, things most Christians accept as true, with tiny tidbits of Witness doctrine sprinkled ever so subtly within the text. We may even be sincere when we say we're not trying to proselytize. But the whole point really is to sway Christians into believing something most of us know to be false. We have to be careful here.



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22 Jun 2012, 12:30 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
Yeah, but nowadays you have the odd experience of huge numbers of goyim absolutely loving you to death, as a result of getting ahold of your holy writings.

Indeed. I don't care what ruveyn thinks about me. He's still cool.



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22 Jun 2012, 1:46 pm

The practice of every observant Jew when reading text in which the tetragrammaton appears is to substitute "ha-shem" (the name), "adonai" (my lord) or some similar form of words. Such a person quoting Deuteronomy would make that substitution, and it stands to reason, then, that Jesus would have done the same.


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24 Jun 2012, 11:19 pm

As far as the name of God goes - a rose by any other name is still a rose.
Even if you call God Cthulhu, it's the thought - not the verbal vocalization - that counts.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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25 Jun 2012, 1:11 am

Honestly, you haven't presented any real evidence favoring your conclusion.

The NT scripture citations are usually based upon the Septuagint, which was Greek, not Hebrew. The writings in the NT were in Greek, not Hebrew. Jesus spoke in Aramaic, and not Hebrew. So, the words they would use, really would be based upon the cultural suppositions of the 1st century Jews about how to name God. If it were any other way, you'd expect the author to make special note of this. In the actual documents, as far as I can tell, Greek words were used in these instances so that the audience would understand.

So, I see your position, but you don't actually seem to have anything.



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26 Jun 2012, 1:24 pm

That's kind of offensive you refer to the Jewish belief about not pronouncing the proper name of god as a "superstition"

It's my understanding no one knows for sure the vowels that go along with the name, so w/o the vowel points, we can't know for sure.



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26 Jun 2012, 1:26 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
As far as the name of God goes - a rose by any other name is still a rose.
Even if you call God Cthulhu, it's the thought - not the verbal vocalization - that counts.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The C'thulu we all loath is a demon, not a just being.

ruveyn



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26 Jun 2012, 1:54 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As far as the name of God goes - a rose by any other name is still a rose.
Even if you call God Cthulhu, it's the thought - not the verbal vocalization - that counts.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The C'thulu we all loath is a demon, not a just being.

ruveyn


One man's god is another's demon and so on


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26 Jun 2012, 2:41 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
As far as the name of God goes - a rose by any other name is still a rose.
Even if you call God Cthulhu, it's the thought - not the verbal vocalization - that counts.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The C'thulu we all loath is a demon, not a just being.

ruveyn


He's a Pre-Euclidean god and one of the Old Ones, according to H.P. Lovecraft who invented him.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer