Where Socialism wins out

Post Reply New Topic

Socialism is a better system for rationing scarce goods than market based capitalism. Market based capitalism is better for increasing the supply of goods and services.

Whenever rationing must be imposed socialism is a system that gives a sense of fairness. Everyone (in theory) is equally screwed so no one feels singled out.

Socialism is the perfect system for making squalor and want bearable.

ruveyn

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, thus capitalism is the better system.

I question the logic of the line of reasoning: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, thus the system which tends to concentrate all the money in the hands of a small number and where only the most privileged are compensated fairly for their labours is the better system".

When the 1% have 100% of wealth, how will we stimulate the economy ?

As do I.

They don't and they never did.

We have a consumer driven economy. Without money in the hands of the buyers the economy dries up. The so called one percent may -own- 70 percent of everything but they don't have 100 percent of everything. They pay wages and they pay taxes. Part of the taxes they pay is for the army and the police to protect their property. Part of the taxes they pay is for courts to protect their interests legally. They also pay bribes to the government which grants them crony favors. And these bribes are sprinkled like crumbs to the to voters so the the cronies can be re-elected. Thus the money is spread and circulated and that is why the economy keeps on going.

You have swallowed the propaganda line of the pinko stinko commie loving Democrat liberals.

ruveyn

there is a distinct us centric feel to this thread, then again when isnt there?

there are plenty of countries that fare better than the us by your own metrics because of that so oh so vilified socialism.

That is true. That is because we are suckers. We have shouldered the burden of defending these places that fare better than us. When we stop our insane military spending we might just be more prosperous by our own metric.

Part of the problem of the U.S. is that we fight the Forever War and we allow ourselves to be defined by our enemies. Eventually that must stop or we will be ruined.

ruveyn

really?

so all the social issues you have stem from the one fact that you are at war?

many of these metrics have nothing direct to do with economy, sure we can influence them using the economy but that isnt the root of those metrics and issues.

Heh. As long as you're one of the ones who gets the scarce goods.

Unlike capitalism, where you can buy the scarce goods if you have the money, socialism centers on power and control.

"Socialism" is being used in the American or North Korean sense of "communism", right? Rather than the European sense, which is what Americans seem to call "capitalism"- a balance where the richer in society are taxed so that the poor can be supported.

Your average American teacher, construction worker, plumber, nurse, engineer, accountant, secretary, or grocery store manager ("the many") earns decent amounts of money. Taking more money from them and letting the taxes of high school dropouts down so that they can buy flat screen television sets, iPads and more stuff they haven't earned, encourages laziness and is unfair to anyone with ambitions and a high morale.

The 10% richest households in the US pay more than half the taxes. If someone who works at McDonald's wants their money, they can get a degree and have the crushing weight on their shoulders for four years that is college.

Last edited by Kurgan on 13 Sep 2012, 12:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I don't think there are any socialist countries in Western Europe. Allthough the executive branch of the government is sometimes socialist, most of the laws regarding the market freedom are within a capitalist framework.

Who said I was talking about America? This issue is a lot more important than just the US. The globally exploitative nature of a capitalist system is what I am talking about. I didn't say any of the words that you tried to put in my mouth. The biggest problem I have with the current system is the fact that some individuals are allowed to accumulate VAST amounts of money, more money than they could ever possibly require. All of the other base urges that humanity has are legislated against - violence, rape, cheating financially in business. But a perversely greedy and unfettered accumulation of wealth by a tiny elite at the expense of the vast majority of people on our planet is insanity. I absolutely believe people should be rewarded for their efforts and that great ingenuity or hard work should be rewarded greatly. But nobody needs hundreds of millions of dollars while people in their own country starve; never mind the people in the rest of the world in a much worse position. So I would propose a *very* generous cap on personal wealth. Nobody should be allowed to be swimming in money while others die for lack of food and if you believe they should you are devoid of morality. People of those very professions you listed are suffering as a result of capitalism right now and the system I am proposing would benefit those very people. Your grocery store manager is probably getting paid less than $20,000 per year while the shareholders of his chain of stores (probably largely investment banks and similar institutions) pocket all the profits of the company which have been earned from the hard work of people like him.

edit: I'm not exactly arguing for classic socialism. More like a social democratic system with state ownership of the most important things (infrastructure, health, teaching etc) and checks and balances (including a maximum limit on wealth) to prevent the super rich people exploiting people like your grocery store manager.

Last edited by invisiblesilent on 13 Sep 2012, 12:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

European countries aren't so much "socialist" as market oriented social democratic countries, which means that you utilize the power capitalism has to produce in order to fund unproductive s**t that people need.

Capitalism produces and socialism consumes, that's more or less the basic idea.

http://www1.salary.com/Retail-Store-Manager-Salary.html

I agree with you on everything else, except that all countries should have both public and private clinics available and that the government should not have a monopoly on some forms of infrastructure (the mass transit systems and the railroad systems in Norway are a f.cking joke).