German warning over mass Romanian and Bulgarian migration

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I think we can all work out exactly what is going to happen. I'm sure the Bulgarians and Romanians are packing their bags now.

And all of us know that none of this would be happening if it wasn't for the EU. The peoples of Germany, the UK, Ireland, and Sweden (for example) would never on their own consent to their countries being flooded with millions of immigrants from poor former Soviet countries. Even the governments of EU countries (you know, the ones so in favour of the EU) seem very nervous about this.

We can't stop this immigration without leaving the Single Market (and thus the EU and EEA). If we stay in this Single Market, we will have to live with the effects of EU expansionism and the EU continuing to flood rich countries with people from the new members of the club that has vastly poorer lifestyles than our own.

An EU would be fine if it just consisted of a few very similar countries that can club together. When it features people that have vastly different economies (and are much poorer) it leads to problems.

Its not the EU offering these people jobs on a niveau that is unlegal to avoid the costs for minimum payment, social care and medical care.

German companies and employer are doing this, while on the either side they push politics in a way, that there are more and more possiblilites, that they cant be punished for doing so.

As the report, if you have read it, says: The problem is that these illegal workers are payed so lowely, because of the illegal employment, that on one side the worker is forced to live in substandard, creating ghettos and health problems and so creating lower possibilities for their children to learn german from native speakers. While on the other side companies, that denie to employ workers for normal standards cant compete with the illegal employing companies, so destroying well payed jobs.

From my oppinion (I am engineer in building sector, which has the second high amount of illegal workers behind tourism), what we need are stronger laws, and worser punishment for companies employing illegal workers. No illegal jobs offered, no people coming for illegal jobs.

But instead its the opposite since years. Companies and guilds pay politician to weaken the laws of illegal working since years. If only one company in an market starts exploit these weak laws, and can lower his prices because of doing so, the whole market is forced to follow him to avoid loosing business.

Every employer, unwilling to employ workers by law, should be forced to live 2 months in such substandard areas and wealth for each month he forced a worker to do so. -.-

No, the EU is saying to the entire populations of very poor countries: you have exactly the same rights to live in the UK, Sweden, Germany or Ireland as Brits, Swedes, Germans or Irish. That's the problem here.

So they have the right to live here, no problem. There are lots of other people living here, and they are not different.

If there were no corrupt employess, offering them illegal jobs, they would earn fair money for their work. They could afford their children to visit kindergarten at least 2 years, they could live in normal flats, surrounded by native german speaking neighbors, and their children would have the possibility to learn german pretty well. (My sister only spoke french, when she moved to austria. After 6 month in kindergarten she spoke "perfectly" (children have a smaller amount of words) german and could be easily compared with the other children. But my parents had normal job (nothing great, my father was bus driver) and so they could afford the normal kindergarten, a completely normal flat with completely normal neighbors, and normal healthcare.

If they had been forced, because of illegal low payment, to live in substandard, we could not have met other children to learn native german, would not have done easily in school, would not have acchieved a normal education to get a normal job. So my mom still has got some accent (She is teacher herself, so she learned german well and the grammar is perfect.), but luckily most people find french accent nice. ^^

But these illegal employment, creates social problems. You have not enough money for living, so you live in ghettos and your children have no native speaking neighbors to play. They do not learn german propper, because of that they have a high risk to fail in school, leading to learning no job, leading to having no job, leading to having no money, leading to being forced to work in illegal employment or criminality.

And the employer can force on their remaining legal workers lower payment by telling them that because if they not accept, the other companies will be cheaper, and so everyone would loose their job.

So in private sector our company still has good work for good workers. Private people can afford to pay for quality and workers that are used to work as team for years and have good quality, deliver good quality.

But public invitations of tenders, we stand no chance with our good quality workers. Its not poor illegal romanian workers, that ruin us that business, its rich business people employing these and offering prices we cannot match, that are ruining us in these public invitations of tender. Its not the Romanian worker we want to get rid of. Its those damned as*holes company owners, using illegal methods to get the job, we want to see in jail. The more jobs these companies get, the less we have. Meaning we have to reduce our normal payed workers. -.- I understand that for those it looks like, as if the illegal workers would take their jobs. But you could send 5000 illegal workers home, as long as that damned company employers are offering 5000 illegal jobs and lousy laws protect them, there will be 5000 illegal workers here doing these jobs.

But there is no looking at the effects that such mass immigration will have on the host countries. If millions of Britons simply moved out to Bulgaria and set up little English enclaves, I really seriously doubt Bulgarians would be very happy about it at all. In fact, I think we'd see a massive spate of murders on English immigrants, massive neo-Nazi movements coming to power and so on.

It's not really a problem for Irish or Maltese (for example) people having the right to live in the UK, because our lives, language, culture, standard of living and wealth are very similar. It's a massive problem to say that, say, people from Iraq or Somalia have the right to live in the UK, because we'd have the entire population of Iraq or Somalia coming to live here, bringing all their problems, their sectarian attitudes, their poverty, further stretching of local amenities, their primitive views on women and gay people, probably a complete rejection of UK national identity by these new immigrants (because they certainly won't be encouraged to integrate), more massive ghettoisation in the country (as if we don't have enough problems already with Muslim ghettoes in this country), a further massive rise in the welfare bill to cope with these new immigrants (further putting pressure on the UK taxpayer) and so on and so forth.

So you don't think that the inhabitants of a country - the citizens - have any sort of special right to it at all? And, if not, are you a 'one-worlder' by any chance?

I consider the recent UK skepticism on immigration very interesting. The UK used to be the most open Western European country. Now they are buying into the xenophobia that has been popping up elsewhere in Western Europe. It fascinates me. It's certainly not good for London's global dominance.

It isn't xenophobia to want control of your own borders and it isn't xenophobia to object to literally millions (the amount of Poles that eventually settled here in the UK from May 2004 on was well over a million in just a few short years) of people flooding into your country.

I'm a member of an anti-mass immigration party in the UK. I'm not against all immigration, and indeed I believe that some immigration is a good thing for everyone. But not at the insane rate we've had it in the last 15 years.

But the "insane" immigration of the past 15 years has helped London become the world's primate city.

It comes down to the difference between an inflow and a deluge.

There is a novel about this situation:
The Camp of the Saints by Jean Raspail (Dec 1994)

Basically everyone in the third world decides to move to Europe at once.

Bad stuff follows. The premise of the novel is that Europe does not have the courage to defend itself against a mass influx of third world types and it is over run.

ruveyn

No; it's poisoned it, removed much of the British feel of the city (I didn't feel as though I was in the UK the last time I visited London) and turned it considerable areas of it into a dangerous, corrupt and violent ghettoes (South London), some of them religiously influenced (Tower Hamlets for a start).

Last edited by Tequila on 06 Feb 2013, 4:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.

That's it. I'm quite happy to see an ebb and flow of people coming into and out of the country. What I'm not happy to see is a million plus new citizens in three years.

Give it time. London will become Londonostan. And all of the faithful will pray five times daily Or Else.

ruveyn

And the Muslim Patrol bootboys will be the stormtroopers marching people to mosque.

Frankly, concerns about them being UK citizens aside, they really should be taken to Saudi or Yemen and left there for a few weeks.

My opinion is Romanians and Bulgarians are welcome here but I want to see a law passed that outlaws a majority of an area being lived in by one ethnic minority.

When groups of immigrants enter a country and all live in the same area it makes them integrate less. If you compare Canada and America's crime rates, Canada's are far less severe.

The cultures of the two countries don't differ significantly. Yet a major difference is in Canada ethnic minorities live spread out more among the general populace. There aren't any Comptons or Harlems in Canada. It's those kind of areas we need to change.

Make immigrants live spread out. Never, ever let too many live in one area. It's a recipe for disaster, crime and poverty.

So you believe in complete open-door immigration from Bulgaria and Romania? Expect to see a very, very large movement of people from these very poor countries to territories like the UK, Ireland, Sweden and so on. Also expect to see some very nasty gangster-types setting up home here too.

As for this? Agreed. Definitely agreed. This can't be any clearer in the case of some religious and ethnic communities.