What will be if Stalin would be assassinated in WWII

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pawelk1986
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05 Mar 2013, 3:44 pm

What will be if Stalin would be assassinated in WWII?

I wonder what would happen if someone conducted a successful assassination on Joseph Stalin during World War II?

If that had that happened, Cold War would never exist?



thomas81
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05 Mar 2013, 3:46 pm

No, because the Soviet Union existed before Stalin took power.

The Soviet Unions ability to defeat Germany is largely attributed to Stalin's 5 year plan. If the USSR lost the war for the Eastern front then Germany would have won on the Western front too.

The cold war would probably have taken place between USA vs Germania. Except the allies would never have salvaged the V2 technology and the west would be playing catch up. Not a good scenario. Possibly, i think if WW2 went the other way, we could have been looking at a cold war with 4 factions. USA, Germania, whatever is left of the Soviet Union and Imperial Japan. The Japanese empire would eventually have become an affront to Hitler's vision of 'aryan dominance'. The world would truly have been a dark place.


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visagrunt
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05 Mar 2013, 4:09 pm

I'm not so sure that the Germans would have been in a position to press the advantage. Even if Stalin had been assassinated, there was no paucity of technocrats ready to serve whoever stepped into his shoes. And there is nothing like a foreign invader, with whom you have a long historical grievance, to motivate the population to resist.

As for your four faction Cold War, I see no basis on which the progress of the Pacific War would have changed, Japan overextended herself when she brought the United States into the War, and--given that she wasn't at war with the Soviet Union until the last week of the war (literally), the only change I can see is that a different soviet leadership might have made an earlier difference in Manchuria.


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naturalplastic
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05 Mar 2013, 4:16 pm

Basically what 81 said. Offing Stalin would have hurt the west DURING the war far more than it wouldve helped the west after the war.

Okay- if your alternative history has the same World War II- but a different guy in charge of the USSR after the war- would the cold war have happened?

The answer is yes.

The implosion of the Third Reich wouldve resulted in Europe being divied up between the Western Allies and the USSR- and every other stage setting for the cold war- that happened the way it actually did. Nothing important would have changed as far as east-west amity and nonamity.



minervx
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05 Mar 2013, 4:45 pm

people assume dictators to be omnipotent figures.

stalin was at the highest position in the soviet union, however, the USSR (like every other dictatorship in history) is ran by a political party, an oligarchy that makes most of the decisions.



thomas81
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05 Mar 2013, 5:09 pm

visagrunt wrote:
As for your four faction Cold War, I see no basis on which the progress of the Pacific War would have changed, Japan overextended herself when she brought the United States into the War, and--given that she wasn't at war with the Soviet Union until the last week of the war (literally), the only change I can see is that a different soviet leadership might have made an earlier difference in Manchuria.


debateable. The way I see it, with Moscow firmly under German subjucation the nazis may have been in position themselves to offer intervention in the Pacific war (At one stage the Germans were holding out for Japanese assistance from the North East when the tide turned against their favour during the attack on Moscow). With the USA outnumbered, it may have forced them back to the west coast with their tails between their legs. If the Germans had managed to build their heavy water bomb before the Americans built their nuke, that would have been another game changer.


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lotuspuppy
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05 Mar 2013, 5:24 pm

If Stalin were assassinated or somehow incapacitated, I doubt it would have any impact on the war effort. What it MIGHT have impacted is the USSR's dominance of Eastern Europe. Stalin himself was critical at getting the Western powers, particularly the U.S, to let him establish the sphere of influence in Eastern Europe that he did. While I think it is likely the USSR would establish some puppet regimes, their sphere of influence would probably start further east. It may not have included East Germany, for instance, or Czechoslovakia.



ruveyn
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05 Mar 2013, 5:33 pm

pawelk1986 wrote:
What will be if Stalin would be assassinated in WWII?

I wonder what would happen if someone conducted a successful assassination on Joseph Stalin during World War II?

If that had that happened, Cold War would never exist?


A much happier Russia, provided Berea did not take over.

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thomas81
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05 Mar 2013, 5:36 pm

lotuspuppy wrote:
If Stalin were assassinated or somehow incapacitated, I doubt it would have any impact on the war effort. .


Soviet defeat. 10 million more jackboots marching on France. You tell me.


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ruveyn
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06 Mar 2013, 7:20 am

thomas81 wrote:
lotuspuppy wrote:
If Stalin were assassinated or somehow incapacitated, I doubt it would have any impact on the war effort. .


Soviet defeat. 10 million more jackboots marching on France. You tell me.


Stalin had the two spies who told him Germany was about to attack executed for spreading disinformation. When he finally realized Hitler had betrayed him, he went catatonic for nearly two weeks. It was Stalin who purged the Soviet Army so thoroughly that they were easy prey for the Germans early on. If the Army had been kept strong Hitler never would have gotten as far as he did into the Russian heartland.

Stalin was part of Russia's problem. It was thugs llke Zhuykov and Khrushchev (he was a political officer) who saved the Soviet Union.

And just how did Stalin "save" his country. By turning millions of Russian into cannon fodder. What a sweet man he was. he was a Monster of the same order and magnitude as Hitler. In fact Stalin had more non-combatants killed than did Hitler. And if Stalin had lived another year or two he would have executed one of the largest anti Jewish pogroms in history.

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06 Mar 2013, 10:34 am

if Losif Dzhygashvili had been killed in WW2 we still would have a cold war. as stalin died in 53 when the cold war was but a infant.

advantage would have been the if Losif had died the lives of millions of russians,poles,ukes lithuanians etc.. would have been saved

disadvantage would be that many many more americans,brits and other alies would have died to stop the axis.or maybe even the 3rd reign of the austro-hungarian empire would have won the war


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06 Mar 2013, 1:37 pm

It would have been better for the Russian people if he'd been assassinated before he ever took office.


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thomas81
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06 Mar 2013, 2:35 pm

Raptor wrote:
It would have been better for the Russian people if he'd been assassinated before he ever took office.


Only if whoever took his place were able to beat the Germans.


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ruveyn
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06 Mar 2013, 4:02 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Raptor wrote:
It would have been better for the Russian people if he'd been assassinated before he ever took office.


Only if whoever took his place were able to beat the Germans.


Stalin purged the Red Army of its brightest and best. Only a few good officers remained. Prior to the purge the Red Army could have stood up against the Panzers. In fact the Red Army beat the living sh*t out of the Panzer Korp with their superior T-34 tank.

A stronger Red Army could have delayed the Germans and kept them far from Moscow and Stalingrad until winter came.

The Russians proved beyond a doubt at the Battle of Kursk that the Blitzkrieg was a limited strategy that could only work against an ill prepared force. Stalin made the situation for the Russians much worse than it had to be.

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globalwolf2010
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06 Mar 2013, 4:11 pm

I feel like it really depends on when he was assassinated, who did the assassinating, and who took his place.

You could end up without a Cold War, you could end up with a Russian leader willing to make enormous concessions to the Germans in exchange for peace, and you could end up with a madman who really wanted to roast his dinner around the cheerful glow of a thermonuclear fire. There are absolutely no guarantees when it comes to major turning points in history.

Well, except for one: if you're Ashton Kutcher and you mess with the past, you will at some point end up without arms. Somehow.



ruveyn
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06 Mar 2013, 4:15 pm

globalwolf2010 wrote:
I feel like it really depends on when he was assassinated, who did the assassinating, and who took his place.

.


Get rid of Stalin before he purged the Red Army.

If the Red Army was completely up to par when Germany attacked the Nazis would have been in for an unpleasant surprise.

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