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BeautifulTechno
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12 Apr 2013, 7:58 am

As you all know, Machiavellianism is substantially used in political deeds and discourse, albeit subliminally. (this demonstrates the topicality of his thoughts)
Here, you can refer factual demonstrations of Machiavellianism in politics. You can also discuss whether or not it is efficient and why should we/shouldn't we use Niccolò Machiavelli's theories. (also they, if you do not consider the public an integrated piece in the Government).

Good posting.



AgentPalpatine
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12 Apr 2013, 8:46 am

I think there are 3-4 comparatively minor points in "The Prince" that would be facinating to discuss with the man, if he was'nt dead for several hundred years.

1. Did the book unfairly depreciate the maneuver warfare of the hired mercenaries?
2. Did the book depreciate the importance of fortifications, or was that an oversight causes by the mild campaigning weather of Florance?
3. How would he look at his advocated "colonial policies" in 2013?
4. With the benefit of the past hundred years in particular, would he still write the same thing about the importance of tradition?


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fueledbycoffee
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12 Apr 2013, 10:46 am

You know, I haven't read the Prince in many years. I still have a copy kicking around somewhere. I might just dust it off again.

I have always had a problem with how the book receives either too much respect or too little. Machiavelli is characterized as a sociopath, without a proper understanding of the kinds of decisions those in power are forced to make. Alternatively, The Prince is used to defend even the most heinous of actions and used to put questioning citizens in their place by academics. Like the Art of War or the Bible, it is very much a product of its time and should be treated that way. It might have some wisdom to be gleaned today, but it must be colored by the fact that we are not living in Florence in the days of the Medici. Although with the freewheeling banking policies of today, the massive income disparity, and so on, America today does more and more resemble the Florence of the Medici.

I'll come back a bit later if this thread is still going after I've leafed through the book again.



AgentPalpatine
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12 Apr 2013, 11:19 am

fueledbycoffee wrote:
You know, I haven't read the Prince in many years. I still have a copy kicking around somewhere. I might just dust it off again.

I have always had a problem with how the book receives either too much respect or too little. Machiavelli is characterized as a sociopath, without a proper understanding of the kinds of decisions those in power are forced to make. Alternatively, The Prince is used to defend even the most heinous of actions and used to put questioning citizens in their place by academics. Like the Art of War or the Bible, it is very much a product of its time and should be treated that way. It might have some wisdom to be gleaned today, but it must be colored by the fact that we are not living in Florence in the days of the Medici. Although with the freewheeling banking policies of today, the massive income disparity, and so on, America today does more and more resemble the Florence of the Medici.

I'll come back a bit later if this thread is still going after I've leafed through the book again.


Remember that the book was written to get it's author back into the good graces of the powers that be of the day. It failed. His picture is still on the wine from the family vinyard however.

Machiavelli strikes as more of a cynic than a sociopath. He lost "The game of thrones" as we'd call it today, and was lucky to survive the defeat. Art of War is better, but it's examples are sometimes confusing, possibly a result of translation issues over the years.


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Our first challenge is to create an entire economic infrastructure, from top to bottom, out of whole cloth.
-CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Centauri Monopoly"
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (Firaxis Games)