How much Faith is one supposed to have to move a mountain?

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I got this from the "Why won't God heal amputees page?"

verse 1 = In Matthew 17:20 Jesus reiterates that same message:
For truly, I say to you, if you have faith as a grain of mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there,' and it will move; and nothing will be impossible to you.

verse 2 = Jesus says something similar in Matthew 21:21:
I tell you the truth, if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer.



Let's say we have

coordinates that are (latitude, longitude) on the earth.

coors1 = (10,100)

coors2= (50, 67)

I am very confused by these two verses.

Let's say x represents how much faith one has.

verse 1 = x that is a real number that is greater than 0% but less than or equal to 100%.

verse 2 = x that is a real number that is equal and only equal to 100%.

Which formula will get the mountain to move from coors1 to coors2? Is it verse 1 or is it verse 2?

I am literally confused.

You don't need faith to move mountains.You just have to own a coal company.

The first is preferred because it is more poetic and "inspirational". There is no way of telling which, if either, is correct.

I would say God doesn't move mountains but Peabody does.And if there was a devil,then I would think he goes by Peabody when it suits him.

The same amount of faith that a mustard seed has, without a doubt.

Obviously, if you can not kill a tree or move a mountain with your faith alone, then doubt controls you.

Welcome to the International Skeptics' Society!

Since mustard seeds do not have faith (as far as we can tell), I'm guessing this is a reference to quantity. Mustard seeds are pretty small, so the suggestion is that we only need a little bit of faith. However, faith is an abstract concept, so pretty difficult to weigh. And then there's the second verse:



This is suggesting we need complete faith, something of a contradiction. It's also demonstrably not true, though not to the one attempting to move the mountain. If your faith is complete and you have no doubt, mere facts will not stand in the way of your conviction that the mountain has indeed moved. Complete faith is the province of the insane.

Or you could take the more balanced view that you do not need much faith to move mountains, just a lot of patience. No-one said it will move right away. It might take a few million years.

... good one ...

Eventually, all mountains may end up in the sea, because erosion is a natural and ongoing process, not a product of faith!

Small seeds can become trees and tear the sidewalks to hell.Trees have a lot of faith

Faith may not physically move mountains, but it can be used to justify anything.

The point of the verses (especially the first one) is to show that nobody has very much faith. It's not intended to help you move a mountain, it's intended to point out how sub-par you are. As is much of the Bible.

... genocide, murder, rape, slavery, theft, torture ...

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion!" -- Steven Weinberg

(Steven Weinberg is an American physicist. He was awarded the 1979 Nobel Prize in Physics for showing that electromagnetism and the weak force are really two aspects of the electro-weak force.)

You like repeating this quote, but it is no more valid than a religious person quoting the Bible.

Please, give me an empirical way of telling the difference between a good person and an evil person that will register this "good person with religion" as a "good person" and not an "evil person". Otherwise you (and this physicist- nice appeal to authority) are talking rubbish.

First, we need a clear definition of good and evil. Which is a problem, because no act is always good or always evil. Everything depends on context and intention.

Faith can move neither bowels nor mountains.

ruveyn

Am I interpreting the scripture wrong?

I thought it followed this model.

Some A are B.
Some A are not B.

if 1% of A are B then it must follow that 99% of A are not B. Let's say we have Set Z which has the members which are sets {faith, ~faith}. {doubt} is a set that is a member of the set called ~faith. Is there something else that belongs in the member of ~faith besides the subset called doubt? If yes, what is it? If not, then doubt must have 99% if faith has 1% and this 1% represents the mustard seed. If I am misinterpreting the scripture then where is my reasoning off?

The way that I've always interpreted this particular verse is essentially as a different wording of the common phrase "You can do anything that you set your mind to". Much of the Bible is written in parables and allegories, and I doubt very much that it meant to imply that simply believing in God would allow you to wave your hands and move a mountain from here to there. I personally think that what it is saying is that if you do have faith in the Lord, as well as yourself, then you have the ability within yourself to accomplish seemingly impossible tasks.

Another possible interpretation is that it is impossible for man to ever truly possess even the small amount of faith required to perform these acts. This interpretation was favored by one of my previous religious instructors.