Page 1 of 2 [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Darialan
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2011
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 357
Location: Coudersport, PA

26 Jun 2013, 1:18 pm

So many of these texts tend to contradict themselves without being so obvious. And I think the people that are faithful to them are confused, too, but I don't think they want to admit it. I go with what I know most about for an example. The Bible. So we have a wrathful angry God. But you know if your people were disrespectful you're going to be angry, too. But then we have Jesus and although he showed anger on a couple of occasions, he was more forgiving. He was more approachable. He let people come to him and showed how love wins people over, but I don't see God doing this in the old testament. I understand you need to punish people for certain actions, but did he win people over with at least some mercy. It doesn't seem like it. So God's son turns everything around in his death and asks his father to forgive them.

Now today we have people saying that God hates you when you sin. But in fact it's hate the sin love the sinner. Then they go on to say that God doesn't love everyone. He didn't seem to love people despite their sins in the ot. God is rather confusing and personally I don't trust everything that a human wrote, so how do we even know all of it's true. Faith is what we have and we can only accept what we understand. Who can trust a flawed human being?

Another thing i think about often is how people enslave themselves to it. I love God and all and I guess you're a slave to one side or the other, but how can you be happy, if all you do is for him and not yourself. I feel if you're trying so hard to be 100% Godly, you can't be 100% happy. There are things about us that are ourselves. They are worldly things. We're not perfect, but we should be wearing a God mask all the time. We need to be ourselves, too.

What led me here to all that was all this anti-homosexuality stuff. They were born that way. They don't have love feelings for the opposite gender. If you know how you feel about the person you're going out with or are married to, wouldn't it be obvious that someone would feel that way about the same gender? And say you are a believer and you're gay, but you deny thst part of you, just so you won't go to hell. You may be doing it for God, but how can you deny yourself happiness with another human being? It's do sad. Sometimes I wonder if it really were true about God, does he want you to not be happy?



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

26 Jun 2013, 1:20 pm

Darialan wrote:
So many of these texts tend to contradict themselves without being so obvious. And I think the people that are faithful to them are confused, too, but I don't think they want to admit it. I go with what I know most about for an example. The Bible. So we have a wrathful angry God. But you know if your people were disrespectful you're going to be angry, too. But then we have Jesus and although he showed anger on a couple of occasions, he was more forgiving. He was more approachable. He let people come to him and showed how love wins people over, but I don't see God doing this in the old testament. I understand you need to punish people for certain actions, but did he win people over with at least some mercy. It doesn't seem like it. So God's son turns everything around in his death and asks his father to forgive them.

Now today we have people saying that God hates you when you sin. But in fact it's hate the sin love the sinner. Then they go on to say that God doesn't love everyone. He didn't seem to love people despite their sins in the ot. God is rather confusing and personally I don't trust everything that a human wrote, so how do we even know all of it's true. Faith is what we have and we can only accept what we understand. Who can trust a flawed human being?

Another thing i think about often is how people enslave themselves to it. I love God and all and I guess you're a slave to one side or the other, but how can you be happy, if all you do is for him and not yourself. I feel if you're trying so hard to be 100% Godly, you can't be 100% happy. There are things about us that are ourselves. They are worldly things. We're not perfect, but we should be wearing a God mask all the time. We need to be ourselves, too.

What led me here to all that was all this anti-homosexuality stuff. They were born that way. They don't have love feelings for the opposite gender. If you know how you feel about the person you're going out with or are married to, wouldn't it be obvious that someone would feel that way about the same gender? And say you are a believer and you're gay, but you deny thst part of you, just so you won't go to hell. You may be doing it for God, but how can you deny yourself happiness with another human being? It's do sad. Sometimes I wonder if it really were true about God, does he want you to not be happy?


Most religious texts are nonsense and balderdash. Made up mostly by let bronze age dudes who did not know stuff is made of atoms and that the earth goes around the Sun.

ruveyn



CSBurks
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 29 Apr 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 766

26 Jun 2013, 1:41 pm

Religions and religious texts are man-made. They also generally reflect the values, ideas and culture of the time/place they were written in.

Genesis 1:6-8 indicates that the top of the sky is made of water.

Quote:
And God said, “Let there be a vault between the waters to separate water from water.” 7 So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the vault “sky.” And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.



SPtread
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 159
Location: Friday Harbor, WA

26 Jun 2013, 1:49 pm

I bought a Bible and read Genesis and it is just confusing. All of the names and ages and especially the footnotes just does not lend itself to comprehension and understanding. Plus, the words in the book that are not used in today's language. I will read the rest of the Bible eventually, but it is an arduous task.


_________________
?Jordan, open, CHICAGO WITH THE LEAD!"
1998 NBA Finals Game 6


Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,807
Location: Stendec

26 Jun 2013, 2:08 pm

I recently came to the conclusion (as detailed in This Post) that while religious texts make little or no sense when read from a scientific perspective, they were apparently not written as historical or scientific documents, but as parables - narratives used mainly to inspire people with weak faith to have stronger faith, and to drive away those people who have no faith at all.

So, whatever state-of-faith you bring to your scriptural readings will likely be amplified and reinforced by those readings.


_________________
 
I have no love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


naturalplastic
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Aug 2010
Age: 69
Gender: Male
Posts: 35,189
Location: temperate zone

26 Jun 2013, 2:19 pm

SPtread wrote:
I bought a Bible and read Genesis and it is just confusing. All of the names and ages and especially the footnotes just does not lend itself to comprehension and understanding. Plus, the words in the book that are not used in today's language. I will read the rest of the Bible eventually, but it is an arduous task.


My grandma gave me a bible for Xmas when I was like in Junior High.

And one day I actually sat down to read it from cover to cover.

I got bogged down in all of that "Guy number one lived X number of years and then begat guy number two, and then lived X number of centuries after he begat guy number two. And all days of guy number one were Y. And then guy number two begat guy number three, and then lived X number of years after that. And all of the days guy number two were X...."

Then I found a way to motivate myself.

I took at a pad of graph paper and actually tried to graph out the life spans of all those patriarchs in Genisis to see if I could catch them in a particular descrepency. That being to see if any of their lifespans extended beyond the year of the Flood.

But I never completed even that project.

However years later I did read in a magazine that if you work it out- one of those partriarchs(I believe it was Enoch) dies the same year as the Flood. The article says "the Bible doesnt mention him drowning in the Flood" but admits that "he may have just died earlier in the same year as the Flood, but not in the Flood itsself". So someone else did the work for me, and did find that one almost-but-not-quite descrepency.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

26 Jun 2013, 3:10 pm

SPtread wrote:
I bought a Bible and read Genesis and it is just confusing. All of the names and ages and especially the footnotes just does not lend itself to comprehension and understanding. Plus, the words in the book that are not used in today's language. I will read the rest of the Bible eventually, but it is an arduous task.


If you did not read it in the original Hebrew, you did not read Genesis (which is called B'rayshis in Hebrew, meaning in the Beginning). If you read the KJV toss that piece of crap into the rubbish. It is a terrible translation from the Hebrew.

ruveyn



Cei
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 9 Mar 2011
Age: 32
Gender: Female
Posts: 155
Location: USA

26 Jun 2013, 9:49 pm

ruveyn wrote:
SPtread wrote:
I bought a Bible and read Genesis and it is just confusing. All of the names and ages and especially the footnotes just does not lend itself to comprehension and understanding. Plus, the words in the book that are not used in today's language. I will read the rest of the Bible eventually, but it is an arduous task.


If you did not read it in the original Hebrew, you did not read Genesis (which is called B'rayshis in Hebrew, meaning in the Beginning). If you read the KJV toss that piece of crap into the rubbish. It is a terrible translation from the Hebrew.

ruveyn


Is there a particular translation you would recommend, then, Ruveyn?

That said, yes, I don't think you can really judge what makes sense or not based on a translation. Whatever you think is the origin of whatever scripture, I think we can all agree that the translations are just some dude's idea of it and therefore imperfect.

That said I think most of the Quran makes sense based on aforementioned unreliable translations, so I'm going in circles here.



Fnord
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 May 2008
Age: 67
Gender: Male
Posts: 60,807
Location: Stendec

26 Jun 2013, 9:52 pm

Here's a link to The Book of "Genesis" in Hebrew and English.

Maybe Ruveyn can look it over and verify its accuracy ... ?


_________________
 
I have no love for Hamas, Hezbollah, Iranian Leadership, Islamic Jihad, other Islamic terrorist groups, OR their supporters and sympathizers.


uwmonkdm
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 5 Mar 2013
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 764
Location: Canada

28 Jun 2013, 3:25 am

It seems that the focus here is on Judeo-Christian books, yet the title read "religious texts"..

I would advise you to read the eastern religious texts, they are much more profound and meaningful, without the need for too many silly stories (with the exception of Hinduism).

Here are some interesting works... links: (click)
Taoist Daodejing (by Lao Tzu)
Taoist Chang Tzu (Zhuangzi)
Zen Buddhism Intro-ish (Koans)
Confucian Analects (not quite a religious text but an important philosophical text - by Confucius of course)
Buddhist Diamond Sutra
Hindu Bhagavadgita


Not a religious text, but this is one of the best books I've read in my life:
Alan Watts - The Book: Taboo against knowing who you are
An amazingly easy read, Watts' writing style flows like the dao he speaks of, and if you take on this book with an open mind I guarantee it will affect you.

If you would only read one of these, I suggest the Daodejing (it's not that long)... then Alan Watts' "The Book"..

Hopefully I didn't compile this list for nothing :?

Oh, and I've read the Bible (king james), The Qu'ran, and Lavey's Satanic Bible as well.
We're all fairly familiar with the bible, I won't waste my energy.
The Qu'ran was horribly repetitive and just all around terrible in its ideas about life and practices.
Of these three books, the Satanic Bible is probably the most reasonable, at least it puts forth a workable worldview that's realistic; that of the selfish, atheistic narcissist - I'm sure we all know at least one of these!



Exploronaut
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 177
Location: Norway

28 Jun 2013, 5:30 am

Darialan wrote:
So many of these texts tend to contradict themselves without being so obvious. And I think the people that are faithful to them are confused, too, but I don't think they want to admit it. I go with what I know most about for an example. The Bible. So we have a wrathful angry God. But you know if your people were disrespectful you're going to be angry, too. But then we have Jesus and although he showed anger on a couple of occasions, he was more forgiving. He was more approachable. He let people come to him and showed how love wins people over, but I don't see God doing this in the old testament. I understand you need to punish people for certain actions, but did he win people over with at least some mercy. It doesn't seem like it. So God's son turns everything around in his death and asks his father to forgive them.

Now today we have people saying that God hates you when you sin. But in fact it's hate the sin love the sinner. Then they go on to say that God doesn't love everyone. He didn't seem to love people despite their sins in the ot. God is rather confusing and personally I don't trust everything that a human wrote, so how do we even know all of it's true. Faith is what we have and we can only accept what we understand. Who can trust a flawed human being?

Another thing i think about often is how people enslave themselves to it. I love God and all and I guess you're a slave to one side or the other, but how can you be happy, if all you do is for him and not yourself. I feel if you're trying so hard to be 100% Godly, you can't be 100% happy. There are things about us that are ourselves. They are worldly things. We're not perfect, but we should be wearing a God mask all the time. We need to be ourselves, too.

What led me here to all that was all this anti-homosexuality stuff. They were born that way. They don't have love feelings for the opposite gender. If you know how you feel about the person you're going out with or are married to, wouldn't it be obvious that someone would feel that way about the same gender? And say you are a believer and you're gay, but you deny thst part of you, just so you won't go to hell. You may be doing it for God, but how can you deny yourself happiness with another human being? It's do sad. Sometimes I wonder if it really were true about God, does he want you to not be happy?

I do not know wether God exist or not, but I am very certain that he didn't write the Bible. Cause if an omnipotent superbeing had written it, or any other old religous text, then they would not contain these mistakes.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFrkjEgUDZA&list=PL126AFB53A6F002CC[/youtube]
Quote:
"It's strange, but these Ten Commandments seem to ignore the rights of women and children but are big on protecting the rights of oxen, slave, and donkey-owners. I mean, it's almost as if a man made up these commadnments to keep a primitive people in check!"
~Jesus of Caesarea

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLTfsV3lj-o[/youtube][youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJqw-idOwUc[/youtube]


_________________
Reality is an illusion.


SPtread
Snowy Owl
Snowy Owl

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 159
Location: Friday Harbor, WA

03 Jul 2013, 12:49 am

uwmonkdm wrote:
It seems that the focus here is on Judeo-Christian books, yet the title read "religious texts"..

I would advise you to read the eastern religious texts, they are much more profound and meaningful, without the need for too many silly stories (with the exception of Hinduism).

Here are some interesting works... links: (click)
Taoist Daodejing (by Lao Tzu)
Taoist Chang Tzu (Zhuangzi)
Zen Buddhism Intro-ish (Koans)
Confucian Analects (not quite a religious text but an important philosophical text - by Confucius of course)
Buddhist Diamond Sutra
Hindu Bhagavadgita


Not a religious text, but this is one of the best books I've read in my life:
Alan Watts - The Book: Taboo against knowing who you are
An amazingly easy read, Watts' writing style flows like the dao he speaks of, and if you take on this book with an open mind I guarantee it will affect you.

If you would only read one of these, I suggest the Daodejing (it's not that long)... then Alan Watts' "The Book"..

Hopefully I didn't compile this list for nothing :?

Oh, and I've read the Bible (king james), The Qu'ran, and Lavey's Satanic Bible as well.
We're all fairly familiar with the bible, I won't waste my energy.
The Qu'ran was horribly repetitive and just all around terrible in its ideas about life and practices.
Of these three books, the Satanic Bible is probably the most reasonable, at least it puts forth a workable worldview that's realistic; that of the selfish, atheistic narcissist - I'm sure we all know at least one of these!


Thanks. No, you did not compile this list for nothing.


_________________
?Jordan, open, CHICAGO WITH THE LEAD!"
1998 NBA Finals Game 6


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

03 Jul 2013, 1:33 am

Read what David Hume has to say about religious or metaphysical texts:

"When we run over libraries, persuaded of these principles, what havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance, let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames, for it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion."



GoonSquad
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 May 2007
Age: 54
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,748
Location: International House of Paincakes...

03 Jul 2013, 8:16 am

ruveyn wrote:

If you did not read it in the original Hebrew, you did not read Genesis (which is called B'rayshis in Hebrew, meaning in the Beginning). If you read the KJV toss that piece of crap into the rubbish. It is a terrible translation from the Hebrew.

ruveyn


I can certainly agree that the translator has a huge impact on the text being translated.

Meditaions by Marcus Aurelius is a special interest of mine. Unfortunately, I cannot read it in the original Greek. :cry:

I probably own about 6 different translations, the best I can do when studying is compare them and try to synthesize my own interpretation.

As far as translations of the Bible go, I dunno from accurate, but the ESV is a very readable translation. Actually reading that version convinced me I could not be a Christian. Man, the old testament is brutal. 8O

You can get a kindle copy of the ESV Bible for free.

To the OP,

I'd recommend The Epistulae Morales ad Lucilium by Seneca and Meditations by Marcus Aurelius. These are not religious texts per se, but they are excellent works on moral philosophy.

Seneca's work is actually a collection of essays on various moral issues. They are very well done and readable and also give an interesting view of everyday life in 1st century Rome. It seems shockingly modern in many respects.

Meditations is actually the personal diary of history's only true philosopher king. It's basically a collection thoughts written as they occurred to the man and illustrate his process of personal examination and struggle to live a good life and be a just and benevolent public servant.

The modern world could certainly use a few more leaders like Marcus.


_________________
No man is free who is not master of himself.~Epictetus


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 88
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

03 Jul 2013, 9:31 am

I prefer reading the TNKH is Hebrew. Even the generally accepted Hebrew version of the scriptures is the work of a committee of redactors and editors who did their thing during the Babylonian Exile. So the Hebrew version of the TNKH is not even the original version for a significant amount of the material. It is a redact.

ruveyn



thewhitrbbit
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 May 2012
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,124

03 Jul 2013, 11:12 am

God still loves you when you sin, but that doesn't negate the fact you've sinned. A parent loves their child, but when they do something bad, they get punished, but they are still loved.

Religious texts can be confusing, but they can also be very profound. A quick look through the Book of Proverbs for example, can provide incredible insight into how to live a good life. Reading through the teachings of Koheleth in Ecclesiastes is very humbling. It takes time to understand.

But to start with, a lesson from Rabbi Hillel.

A man dared Rabbi Hillel to teach the entire Torah while standing on one leg. Hillel accepted, saying. "That which is hateful to you, do not do to your fellow. That is the whole Torah; the rest is the explanation; go and learn."