Unfairness of Life and Welfare/Entitlements

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People in general seem to accept and believe a rule that "Life is Unfair."

If one must accept this as true then one must accept this corollary as true as well. Conservatives complain about this corollary as well. They see it as unfair that some people get to do nothing while others have to bust their ass. Based upon the unfairness of life shouldn't conservatives accept this corollary as well? Why do conservatives have such contradictory and inconsistent beliefs such as this?

The ideologies and justifications for conservatism that reach the public are designed to market policies which benefit the super-wealthy.

I don't know that its solely conservatives who think like this, but it is also intresting when people think the amount of wealth someone has always reflects how hard they worked to get there. Well the truth of the matter is many of the wealthy are not doing any 'hard' work they play games of manipulation and reap the benefits, people born into wealthy families have a lot handed to them are pretty much garanteed to get into good colleges and remain wealthy due to connections they have. I am not saying this about everyone who is wealthy, there are people who really have legitimately gotten there through hard work, innovation and things like that so I am not denying that. There are people who work their asses off doing labor jobs who still need welfare because they don't make enough to sustain themselves or if they have dependents the can't sustain them either without help like foodstamps, medicaid and other state programs.

Of course life is unfair in lots of ways, but that doesn't mean society should do nothing to make things a bit more fair, and a bit easier for people within the society. Its sort of a myth that people who have less are doing 'nothing' I mean even homeless people without jobs aren't doing nothing they have to survive and for some that survival takes up any time and energy that could be used looking for work...but intrestingly enough a lot of homeless people are working. Then there is SSI which is a form of welfare, and people on it aren't just doing nothing....I am in therapy and being treated for my issues, I still help out around my moms house since I live here and I go out to visit friends/family and am considering volunteering and of course dealing with the issues I have to get through the day ect....so its not really doing nothing its not being able to function well enough for work and being given financial assistance to live on.

So no I don't really get the 'life is hard, therefore nothing should be done to make things easier' or life is unfair so nothing should be done to make it more fair where possible.' I don't advocate taking all of the challenges out of life, but nothing wrong with having programs in place to help people who are down and out in society.

What really irks me is how Conservatives see the very tiny minority of people who are on public assistance programs who abuse the system and they hold these out as example of how the system is failing. The lies and propaganda they spew about food stamp statistics is nauseating. The same with how they judge people who are on disability. They see someone on disability for mental issues who types in a forum like this and they say "if you can sit on your ass and type on the internet then you can sit in an office and type on a computer" then they go ballistic on a mental person who walks around shooting people because of some incident in society that "normal" people would be able to handle.

Perhaps they would prefer instead of someone receiving $11,000 dollars a year for mental disability to just be thrown in prison just for having mental problems so that society can pay the prison system $39,000 a year each to babysit the mentally disabled? And most people receiving disability have paid for it through their own taxes before becoming disabled, so it is hardly an "entitlement."

1. Conservatives generally view the taking of their money as bad. They think the government is wasteful, and is "stealing" when it takes their money.

2. They may tell a poor person, "life is unfair, suck it up, do better ... ".

3. And further tell that person, "You are better off economically if I keep my wealth ... [insert various capitalistic argument here] ".

So, I don't think they believe they are inconsistent.

Conservatives think helping people is bad, PERIOD. If they do help you, they think it gives them the right to shame you, humiliate you, guilt trip you and pretty much own you psychologically. And then they want to tell you they are good, moral, "Christians."

In the United States we have the "conservative democrats" that believe in gun rights, pro-life (anti-abortion), pro-religion while they also support welfare.

Quoted: "Some conservative Democrats believe in social programs (e.g., Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid)".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservative_Democrat

Inconsistent? Maybe not. Indefensible and completely self-serving? Well, that much is obvious.

My boss is a conservative, and the only reason he liked and hired me was because I told him I was once on disability but quit because I wanted to be independent and have some honer and pride. so he does throw me a bone for work now and then but not enough to survive on.

Just I am oh so sick of how he looks down his nose at me and many times treats me like crap. if he only knew I had given up and am trying to get back on disability he would throw a fit. I have had to sit and listen to him many times belittle those who are on welfare and disability programs because he feels they suck his tax monies down when they could be used elsewhere.

You can't win, you try and stand on your feet and now and then need a little help doing so, and others complain, where on disability at least you no longer have to be forced to listen to it anymore. their going to complain either way. and if you stood on your own financial feet they would still treat you like trash unless you can help line their pockets too. money money money.

It is. Justice and Fairness do not flow from the physical laws of the cosmos. One must depend on people to be fair and just and therein lies the problem.

ruveyn

after working for more than 40 years before going on disability no employer is going to pay me, at my age what I am making from having paid into the system all my life. I refuse to allow them to guilt trip me. Employers have no loyalty to workers or country anymore. The way the 1% talks about the American labor force is disgusting. And most of the 1% so-called job creators do nothing but sit on their asses all day making money off the sweat of those they complain about. And I don't assume this is exclusive to America.

Generally I put up with allot, he has learned what he says has little affect on me till he crosses my own boundaries of what I will put up with by trying to humiliate me in front of others, at that point I flip him off and walk away and he can finish what ever job I was working on him self, I don't care if I am flat broke and going hungry I wont put up with it.... he later comes back begging me to do some garbage work he does not want to do as well as making apologies. and he knows I will do the work because I have a kid to feed and there is hardly any other work around. and because of custody issues I cant move. I get sick of the treatment, I had rather be back on disability. Work does not feel vary honorable when people treat you like crap for it. and its not that I am a bad worker, he just likes to put him self up on that pedestal in front of others even if its at my expense.

Your talking to someone who has lived on the streets for nearly a decade, and not because I had too, and not once did I beg or panhandle for anything, money actually means vary little to me but I have to have it to raise a child. and I cant just throw everything to the wind as I done in my youth and then drag a child with me into that life. they would take him from me if not even lock me away for even trying.

Last edited by AspergianMutantt on 08 Apr 2014, 10:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

To a degree, you are pursuing a circular argument.

Life isn't fair....therefore being taxed to enforce "fairness" is acceptable.

However, the whole concept of welfare programs is to HELP people, not to make life "fair."

Welfare programs are inherently discriminatory. If you are under a given level of income/assets, you qualify. If you are over, you get nothing....no analysis is made into how legitimate or real your NEED is. More so, it's not hard to earn money under the table and have possessions held in another person's name to meet the income/asset requirements to qualify. Then, case managers are not allowed to do anything more than ask you to provide documentation and access to bank records to ensure your claims about income/assets are true. They can't investigate family, friends, etc. without some smoking gun proof that you are defrauding the system.

If the goal of welfare is to make life "fair," then it has to follow a subjective standard of who qualifies and who does not. Of course, this would produce lawsuits most every day claiming "discrimination" because a case manager allowed one person but not another to get assistance. Only an objective standard works, but objective standards are inherently unfair.

As such, the conservative view is that it is a good thing to have programs to HELP people but not programs that intend to impose someone's definition of "fairness." We will never reach a consensus on what is "fair." We already have a hard time deciding when "helping" become "enabling." Go to any group that deals with alcoholism or drug addiction. They can tell you stories all day of people who felt they were "helping" someone when their acts only served to "enable" the addict. Welfare programs face the same inherent problem.

Welfare is not there to provide for those unfortunate to be born into poverty so that they have it as well as someone born into wealth. The American jurisprudential system only allows the confiscation of wealth from one to give to another when that person has individually wronged the victim. Being born into a given class of society is not a crime, and it would be a dangerous thing in America if we started saying that it was a crime.

Just the other day I was trying to find info on how much to tip the pizza delivery person when they come, because I wanted to give a proper tip. Anyways I found some info on like yahoo answers and there was a bit of conversation about how its not the highest paying job so it is a good idea to tip the delivery person and someone posted something like 'well maybe they should get a real job'....I don't know in my opinion people who come to deliver you food when you're too lazy to go and pick it up yourself deserve a little more respect. I hate the attitude some people have towards people with sort of lower paying jobs.

I've heard the same thing said about people working in fast food....and its like ok you probably go through drive thoughs yourself and you're going to rip on the people that serve you your stupid food? Can't say these comments came from conservatives specifically, but a lot of conservatives do seem to have that mentality.

Interesting point.

On one side, yes, pizza delivery is a job for college/high school students. Not full-time wage earners. The job simply is not intended to serve as a primary income to support a family. So, "Get a real job." makes sense.

The other side is we are in a crappy economy, and many would be lucky just to have a part-time job delivering pizzas.

I don't worry about tipping. I hate cold pizza, and invariably, it's bad enough if I pick it up as soon as it comes out of the oven and take it straight home to eat. So, I really don't have pizza delivered. However, you should tip generously if it comes promptly once it comes out of the oven. Some places let you track the pizza online, so you have an idea of how fast it gets to you once ready. Of course, 20% is still my tip limit in general. I'd do more if I had a guy deliver a bunch for a party because it's such a large order.

I've never gotten a cold one, usually I have to wait a little bit before I can eat it because its too hot...better than too cold.

I suppose in the context you speak of that does make sense, but I don't think that is what they meant...they seemed to more be comparing themselves as better than people with that job. Doesn't make sense considering the majority are probably college/high school students... I mean it wouldn't make sense for them to get full time jobs when focusing on highschool/college. though maybe some do that part time and also work other part time jobs, maybe some people are able to live on part time wages. Is it always part time though? I really don't know I've had two jobs one part time in highschool, and one temporary job but it was more full time sort of hours just not long lasting...got fired before my time was up anyways.

Anyways I suppose it just seems pointless to b*** about something that's helpful...it would be like going to the drive through window with someone getting good service and then having the person driving say something like 'that scumbag should go get a real job'. And like you say it can be difficult to find much substantial work....so while in some contexts the comment still makes sense it still does seem rather insensitive to peoples real life situations.