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Ladywoofwoof
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11 Oct 2013, 6:40 pm

I was wondering whether anybody else here has any views on the famous 'Rat Park' experiment, with regards to the causation and perpetuation of drug addiction., and the predicament of variable human life diversity in a negative context

The experiment is illustrated here in an easy to understand cartoon format, by Stuart McMillen.

http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/#page-1



Ladywoofwoof
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11 Oct 2013, 6:50 pm

Further information about the experiment -

http://io9.com/the-rat-park-experiment-486168637



auntblabby
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11 Oct 2013, 7:54 pm

I know why the caged bird is stoned out of his gourd.



knowbody15
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11 Oct 2013, 10:30 pm

Looks like we all need our own version of Rat Park where we can be happy.


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auntblabby
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11 Oct 2013, 10:43 pm

I believe heaven above will be my rat park.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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11 Oct 2013, 11:08 pm

That's very interesting knowing the habits of rats and what they require but the evidence in the human population does not correlate with that of the rat's. Drugs are often used to enhance social experiences in humans and people who are not socially isolated are the ones most likely to become addicts. In fact, a very popular college football player in this very state I reside in died of a prescription painkiller overdose. He had gotten hooked after a doctor prescribed them for a sports injury and this is a common way to get addicted, a doctor prescribes and the person receiving the medicine likes it so much, they want to keep taking it forever and are dissatisfied when it stops working like it did when they first ingested it. This man was NOT isolated he was a college football player and engaged in all the social activities and festivities that athletes habitually enjoy. He was on the state's flagship college football team yet he overdosed and became a casualty like so many others. So much for the idea the sad, isolated, suffering soul is the only one who will ever thirst after drugs, eventually become addicted and will experience the worst withdrawal symptoms. It's not the people who are locked in their rooms forever injecting their veins into bulging stupors.

It's the kids who go out and party with their friends who are at highest risks because parties are where they are most likely to experiment, and those who are injured and get prescriptions for opiates or muscle relaxers from their doctors. There's also body builders who abuse steroids. Are they poor, isolated sufferers? Most body builders are incredibly popular and sought after by the opposite sex.

So you see, that's another motivation for getting involved in drugs, to become more popular. Once the muscles start to bulge, the calendar fills up, you know? Peer pressure is the number one reason people start.

And it's not a matter of "demon drugs" more a matter of statistics, how many people are dying in your area and what is going on due to certain kinds of drugs being consumed, like crank for instance. During the crank epidemic, people who manufactured crank, and there were plenty doing it because it was soooo easy to make a batch of it in a plastic pop bottle, and then ingested what they made, were polluting the environment and killing others. They were getting more paranoid and having psychotic disorders. They weren't functioning like they were before they started taking it. It became noticeable to others and a huge problem in the local population so the law and government decided something needed to be done to put a dent in it. Prominent people were hooked on meth it wasn't just these loners without friends suffering on the fringes of society. If it were, no one would care, believe me. Crank had made its way into every strata of local society which is why the officials acted on it and started restricting one particular ingredient used in the manufacturing process. The drug had spread like wild fire. How do you explain it? That many people isolated and alone, without playmates or jungle gyms?



wozeree
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12 Oct 2013, 6:10 pm

How does that study explain that so many Kennedy's are drug riddled?
So many rock stars? So many rich people in general?
I'm not saying it's not an interesting and it might be making some points, and I guess it could be said that money doesn't equate to happiness anyway. So maybe the point is not to be rich but to have the life you want.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Oct 2013, 7:22 pm

And the fact rats are very simple compared to humans. The idea is the isolated, deprived rats are more at risk than the ones in a happier place but we all know humans in happy places take drugs. How do you explain that?



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12 Oct 2013, 7:45 pm

wozeree wrote:
How does that study explain that so many Kennedy's are drug riddled? So many rock stars? So many rich people in general?

Maybe - just maybe - these famous people see their lives of privilege as prisons where no one likes them for themselves, but only for the money, influence, and fame that they can bestow upon others.

The famous people who are not addicted ... they have control over their own lives, and can come and go as they please.

I see the world not as an oppressive prison, but as a realm of near-infinite choice, where any reasonably able person may choose his or her own destiny. The only drug I am dependent on is Plavix, for controlling my cholesterol.

The Haven is full of posts from people who seem to see the world as a bleak, cold, and oppressive prison, and who also seem dependent upon an assortment of drugs (legal and illegal) to get them through the day.

Maybe "Change your perspective and change your destiny" is not so far from the truth, after all.



GoonSquad
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12 Oct 2013, 8:14 pm

Ladywoofwoof wrote:
I was wondering whether anybody else here has any views on the famous 'Rat Park' experiment, with regards to the causation and perpetuation of drug addiction., and the predicament of variable human life diversity in a negative context

The experiment is illustrated here in an easy to understand cartoon format, by Stuart McMillen.

http://www.stuartmcmillen.com/comics_en/rat-park/#page-1


Wow, that's pretty awesome. Right now, I'm in the middle of a class on Addiction/Assessment/Treatment, and your little comic perfectly describes the psychology of addiction.

I think I'll email that link to my professor.

I'm sure I'll get some extra points... :wink:


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Oct 2013, 8:20 pm

Fnord wrote:
wozeree wrote:
How does that study explain that so many Kennedy's are drug riddled? So many rock stars? So many rich people in general?

Maybe - just maybe - these famous people see their lives of privilege as prisons where no one likes them for themselves, but only for the money, influence, and fame that they can bestow upon others.

The famous people who are not addicted ... they have control over their own lives, and can come and go as they please.

I see the world not as an oppressive prison, but as a realm of near-infinite choice, where any reasonably able person may choose his or her own destiny. The only drug I am dependent on is Plavix, for controlling my cholesterol.

The Haven is full of posts from people who seem to see the world as a bleak, cold, and oppressive prison, and who also seem dependent upon an assortment of drugs (legal and illegal) to get them through the day.

Maybe "Change your perspective and change your destiny" is not so far from the truth, after all.

That's only a small segment of the population. Many do drugs just to party, kinda like how people go and order a beer at a restaurant or drink at a club or with a group of friends. It's not all about feeling bleak although some might do drugs because they feel that way. It's a very small group who does. Most get high with their friends.



GoonSquad
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12 Oct 2013, 8:23 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
And the fact rats are very simple compared to humans. The idea is the isolated, deprived rats are more at risk than the ones in a happier place but we all know humans in happy places take drugs. How do you explain that?


Sure humans are much more psychologically complex than rats, but boredom and social isolation are huge drivers of addiction in people. The more psychologically complex you are, the more vulnerable you would be to things like boredom, etc. It's probably far easier to please a rat than a person.

Also, some people are just far more predisposed to addictive behavior. All it takes is one run-away dopamine cascade to be on your way to ruin.


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auntblabby
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12 Oct 2013, 8:36 pm

Fnord wrote:
Maybe "Change your perspective and change your destiny" is not so far from the truth, after all.

just as "the secret" was bunk, so is the devilishly persistent horatio alger meme. many simply cannot change their perspective until their destiny changes, and even then their mental state may take decades to catch up with their new reality if it ever does.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Oct 2013, 8:39 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
And the fact rats are very simple compared to humans. The idea is the isolated, deprived rats are more at risk than the ones in a happier place but we all know humans in happy places take drugs. How do you explain that?


Sure humans are much more psychologically complex than rats, but boredom and social isolation are huge drivers of addiction in people. The more psychologically complex you are, the more vulnerable you would be to things like boredom, etc. It's probably far easier to please a rat than a person.

Also, some people are just far more predisposed to addictive behavior. All it takes is one run-away dopamine cascade to be on your way to ruin.

I agree with the genetic component about predisposition to addiction. I have had presciptions for Demerol and Percosets before yet do not crave them afterward like some people after just one Rx, but face it, society is less boring today than it has ever been and people still develop addictions. It's more about peer pressure and social behavior than it is boredom. Why do people buy alcohol when they go out to eat or to a club or while they are watching sports on television? Because they are bored? They could easily buy a Dr Pepper or Red Bull. They buy the harder stuff to enhance their experience or because it looks better than just a soft drink. A guy feels more masculine with a beer, a woman feels sophisticated with a glass of wine. Same with drugs. There's really no difference in what causes a person to drink beer for the first time or smoke a joint or a cigarette.



GoonSquad
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12 Oct 2013, 9:04 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Maybe "Change your perspective and change your destiny" is not so far from the truth, after all.

just as "the secret" was bunk, so is the devilishly persistent horatio alger meme. many simply cannot change their perspective until their destiny changes, and even then their mental state may take decades to catch up with their new reality if it ever does.


That is true, and no amount of positive thinking will get you out of a jam all by itself...

However, hopelessness and pessimism are huge drivers of addictive behavior (not to mention unnecessary misery) too.

Rather than seeing negative events as permanent, pervasive and personalized, try to remember that most set backs are temporary, specific, and external.

One of the great secrets of the universe, according to Epictetus is: “We are not disturbed by what happens to us, but by our thoughts about what happens to us.”

At some level, unhappiness is a choice.


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Fnord
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12 Oct 2013, 9:07 pm

auntblabby wrote:
Fnord wrote:
Maybe "Change your perspective and change your destiny" is not so far from the truth, after all.

just as "the secret" was bunk, so is the devilishly persistent horatio alger meme. many simply cannot change their perspective until their destiny changes, and even then their mental state may take decades to catch up with their new reality if it ever does.

If it is "bunk", then why am I not living in my parent's house, unemployed, unmarried, self-medicated and incapable of holding down a job? :roll:

I had to change my attitude about my place in the world, and since then my fortunes have increased. There's no magic to it - where others see insurmountable obstacles, I see situations to overcome. Where others see failure, I see lessons. Where others see "sour grapes", I see the makings of fine wine. Where others see rejection, I see freedom from social oppression.

Maybe it's because I was not diagnosed until the age of 54 that I never knew I was "supposed" to turn my back on the "Horatio Alger" meme. All that time, I should have been self-diagnosing, self-medicating, and blaming the big, bad, mean old world for all of my problems. Instead, I made the mistake of believing in myself and made the effort to be somebody, and ended up in the shameful situation of being successful ... poor, poor, pitiful me ... :lol:

And now someone else is living in my mother's basement. :lol: Too bad for them!