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Arran
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24 Nov 2013, 4:58 am

If there is one person who doesn't seem to receive enough attention in debates and research about the assassination of President Kennedy it is James Jesus Angleton. An article from Press TV contains the statements

"one is that the highest level CIA officer who appears to have ordered the assassination was James Jesus Angleton - the head of counterintelligence; and he was a very close friend of the Israelis. Many consider him to have been an Israeli mole in the CIA".

"And secondly, The financing for the Kennedy assassination was done by a financial group named Permindex. Now, Permindex, which was prosecuted briefly by the New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison turns out to be basically an Israeli company".

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/11/23 ... oup-detat/

There are also claims that Israel was behind President Kennedy's assassination

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/11/23 ... ssination/

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/11/22 ... ssy-knoll/

"It is telling that high-level Israeli CIA mole James Jesus Angleton has managed to stay largely off the radar screen of most JFK assassination investigators, while mid-level guys like Howard Hunt and William Harvey, and low-level guys like Frank Sturgis and David Sanchez Morales, have been widely pilloried for their roles in the JFK killing".

I first found out about Angleton when I read Spy Catcher by Peter Wright.

Peter Wright first met Angleton in Washington in 1957 and he stated that "he had a razor sharp mind and a determination to win the Cold War, not just to enjoy fighting of it". p102

"Angleton's star was fast rising in Washington in the late 1950s, particularly after he obtained the secret text of, Khrushchev's denunciation of Stalin from his contacts in Israel". p103

"It was a difficult time for the CIA. Kennedy had just been assassinated and the Warren Commission of inquiry was sitting, and Angleton had pressing problems of his own". p269

"As soon as I told Angleton I was visiting Washington he became quite aggressive. He told me I had no right to visit Washington unless he was in town. At the time I thought his worry was to do with the Israelis. The Middle Eastern situation was brewing up, and Angleton always jealously protected his relationships with the Israeli secret service, Mossad". p347

"In 1970 Angleton suffered the greatest blow of all. He lost his administrative officer and effective number two, Jim Hunt. Hunt was a hard man, who treated Angleton's obsessions with balanced skepticism. He had his feet on the ground, and he made things happen. Angleton, like myself, was a hopeless administrator, and Hunt ensured that papers were circulated, requests replied to, and the day to day routine, upon which an efficient intelligence service relies, was maintained. Without him, Angleton became a ship without an anchor, drifting slowly toward the abyss". p347

Does anybody on WP know much about James Jesus Angleton and Permindex?



naturalplastic
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24 Nov 2013, 6:15 pm

So it wanst the Cubans? Niether Castro, nor the anti-castro cubans? And it wasnt LBJ? And it wasnt J. Edgar Hoover? And it wasnt the Mob?

It was the Isrealies who wanted JFK dead?

Why did Israel want him dead?



Arran
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25 Nov 2013, 3:12 am

Americans on WP might be more familiar with Angleton than the British are. Very few people in Britain have even heard of him.



sonofghandi
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25 Nov 2013, 8:16 am

Followed your links.

Just for the record, teams of ballistics experts have proven multiple times that no shots fired from the grassy knoll struck JFK.


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25 Nov 2013, 10:05 am

i supose 1 supporting factor that Israel could have been behind the assassination was the fact that Jack ruby(birth name was Rubinstein) was jewish.so its possible that ruby and oswald could have been working for the ha mosad.this is the first i have heard of anyone saying that israel\ha mosad ordered kennedy's murder.i would suspect that if there was a real conspiracy someone would have figured it out in 50 years.israel is a bit of a johhny come lately as far as conspiracy theories.

the mob
the CIA
lyndon johnson
the FBI/J.edgar hoover
but those theories only took a decade to come out and have had 40 years of validation,this israel theory has not stood the test of time.if a theory is real there will be evidence and if there is evidence someone smart should hone in on it

i once heard it said George H.W Bush ordered the hit while being an under cover operative of the CIA

watergate burgler E.Howard Hunt suposedly confessed to killing kennedy on his death bed.

so other than the fact you have a jewish individual involved in the crime there is not much to connect israel to the crime


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25 Nov 2013, 1:04 pm

Arran wrote:
If there is one person who doesn't seem to receive enough attention in debates and research about the assassination of President Kennedy it is James Jesus Angleton. An article from Press TV contains the statements

"one is that the highest level CIA officer who appears to have ordered the assassination was James Jesus Angleton - the head of counterintelligence; and he was a very close friend of the Israelis. Many consider him to have been an Israeli mole in the CIA".

"And secondly, The financing for the Kennedy assassination was done by a financial group named Permindex. Now, Permindex, which was prosecuted briefly by the New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison turns out to be basically an Israeli company".

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/11/23 ... oup-detat/

There are also claims that Israel was behind President Kennedy's assassination

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/11/23 ... ssination/

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/11/22 ... ssy-knoll/

"It is telling that high-level Israeli CIA mole James Jesus Angleton has managed to stay largely off the radar screen of most JFK assassination investigators, while mid-level guys like Howard Hunt and William Harvey, and low-level guys like Frank Sturgis and David Sanchez Morales, have been widely pilloried for their roles in the JFK killing".

I first found out about Angleton when I read Spy Catcher by Peter Wright.

Peter Wright first met Angleton in Washington in 1957 and he stated that "he had a razor sharp mind and a determination to win the Cold War, not just to enjoy fighting of it". p102

"Angleton's star was fast rising in Washington in the late 1950s, particularly after he obtained the secret text of, Khrushchev's denunciation of Stalin from his contacts in Israel". p103

"It was a difficult time for the CIA. Kennedy had just been assassinated and the Warren Commission of inquiry was sitting, and Angleton had pressing problems of his own". p269

"As soon as I told Angleton I was visiting Washington he became quite aggressive. He told me I had no right to visit Washington unless he was in town. At the time I thought his worry was to do with the Israelis. The Middle Eastern situation was brewing up, and Angleton always jealously protected his relationships with the Israeli secret service, Mossad". p347

"In 1970 Angleton suffered the greatest blow of all. He lost his administrative officer and effective number two, Jim Hunt. Hunt was a hard man, who treated Angleton's obsessions with balanced skepticism. He had his feet on the ground, and he made things happen. Angleton, like myself, was a hopeless administrator, and Hunt ensured that papers were circulated, requests replied to, and the day to day routine, upon which an efficient intelligence service relies, was maintained. Without him, Angleton became a ship without an anchor, drifting slowly toward the abyss". p347

Does anybody on WP know much about James Jesus Angleton and Permindex?


I get it. You say the Jews killed Kennedy. Why not? They killed Christ, didn't they?

ruveyn



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25 Nov 2013, 1:09 pm

ruveyn wrote:
I get it. You say the Jews killed Kennedy. Why not? They killed Christ, didn't they?

ruveyn


Actually, the Romans did that. The Jews just got the blame.



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25 Nov 2013, 1:43 pm

vermontsavant wrote:
i supose 1 supporting factor that Israel could have been behind the assassination was the fact that Jack ruby(birth name was Rubinstein) was jewish.so its possible that ruby and oswald could have been working for the ha mosad.


I have thought about it but even if Israel was behind the assassination then it could have been purely coincidence that Jack Ruby was Jewish as it's very unlikely that a such an insignificant and lowly individual would have had any contacts with senior figures inside Mossad or American intelligence services.

Quote:
this is the first i have heard of anyone saying that israel\ha mosad ordered kennedy's murder.


This is the first time that I have read such a thing. The intelligent strategy would be to focus more attention on Angleton himself to determine if he was involved in the assassination or could have knowledge not yet in the public domain. From the way that the intelligence services were organised in the 1960s, then any requests from Mossad would almost have certainly have come through Angleton as he was their main gateway to the CIA.

According to Wikipedia (which is not gospel):

He was chief of the CIA's counterintelligence (CI) staff from 1954 to 1975. His official position within the organization was "Associate Deputy Director of Operations for Counterintelligence (ADDOCI)".

In May 1949, he was made head of Staff A of the CIA's Office of Special Operations, where he was responsible for the collection of foreign intelligence and liaison with the CIA's counterpart organizations. Beginning in 1951 Angleton was responsible for liaison with Israel's Mossad and Shin Bet agencies, "the Israeli desk," crucial relationships that he managed for the remainder of his career.

The Israeli connection was of interest to Angleton for the information that could be obtained about the Soviet Union and aligned countries from émigrés to Israel from those countries and for the utility of the Israeli foreign intelligence units for operations in third countries. Angleton's connections with the Israeli secret intelligence services were useful in obtaining from the Israeli Shin Bet a transcript of Nikita Khrushchev's 1956 speech to the Communist Party of the Soviet Union Congress denouncing Joseph Stalin.

More controversially, former New York congressman and lawyer, Mark Lane, alleged that Angleton might have been directly involved in the conspiracy to murder Kennedy. It was known, according to Lane, that under Angleton's counterintelligence staff was a team of assassins under the command of a U.S. Army colonel named Boris Pash. This assassination team would be employed to deal with counterintelligence threats that could not be tried in an open legal proceeding due to security risk and sensitivity.



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25 Nov 2013, 4:15 pm

I know about Angelton, and while he was a paranoid, fanatically disciplined cold warrior, I have yet to see anything definite tying him to the Kennedy assassination. As a matter of fact, he had been a friend of Bobby Kennedy, and it was that personal connection that might... might... make his connection to the assassination unlikely.
I also know about Permindex, though this claim that they had had Israeli connections is a new one on me. I think Permindex's connections to the Guy Bannister/David Ferrie Anti-Castro New Orleans underground (and thus to the CIA), as well as to Clay Shaw (Permindex board member, and only individual ever to be tried for the crime), and the European right (including the French army element who had tried assassinating DeGaulle) are provable and are far more significant. I just don't see any legitimate connection to Israel, save for some people saying there was one. I've heard of this Israeli theory, but I've never heard of any concrete evidence tying them to the assassination. And for the motive that Israel allegedly had their American ally killed because he had opposed their having a nuclear weapon is pretty much without substance.


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25 Nov 2013, 4:19 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
I get it. You say the Jews killed Kennedy. Why not? They killed Christ, didn't they?

ruveyn


Actually, the Romans did that. The Jews just got the blame.


It was the Romans and those Jews in the religious establishment who had collaborated with the Romans. It was the Jews in general who ended up getting unfairly blamed for Christ's death.


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25 Nov 2013, 5:17 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
So it wanst the Cubans? Niether Castro, nor the anti-castro cubans? And it wasnt LBJ? And it wasnt J. Edgar Hoover? And it wasnt the Mob?

It was the Isrealies who wanted JFK dead?

Why did Israel want him dead?


There have been no Israelites for over 2000 years.

ruveyn



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25 Nov 2013, 5:42 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
And for the motive that Israel allegedly had their American ally killed because he had opposed their having a nuclear weapon is pretty much without substance.


Was President Kennedy really an ally of Israel? I suspect that nuclear weapons are tied up somewhere in the reasons behind his assassination. If the CIA was involved then it's almost impossible that Angleton wasn't involved or had knowledge of an impending assassination. Angleton's close relationship with the Israeli intelligence services is something that needs closer examination. Was the primary reason to use Israel as a pipeline for information from the Soviet Union or was he working to implement Israeli interests in the US? Could Mossad have struck a deal with him to have President Kennedy assassinated in return for supplying him with information from the Soviet Union in the future? Also take into account that the successor of President Kennedy was very pro-Zionist.



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25 Nov 2013, 7:14 pm

Arran wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And for the motive that Israel allegedly had their American ally killed because he had opposed their having a nuclear weapon is pretty much without substance.


Was President Kennedy really an ally of Israel? I suspect that nuclear weapons are tied up somewhere in the reasons behind his assassination. If the CIA was involved then it's almost impossible that Angleton wasn't involved or had knowledge of an impending assassination. Angleton's close relationship with the Israeli intelligence services is something that needs closer examination. Was the primary reason to use Israel as a pipeline for information from the Soviet Union or was he working to implement Israeli interests in the US? Could Mossad have struck a deal with him to have President Kennedy assassinated in return for supplying him with information from the Soviet Union in the future? Also take into account that the successor of President Kennedy was very pro-Zionist.


How does this differ from saying "Israel had no motive to kill Kennedy"?

The Coke company had more motive to grease Bloomberg for banning 64 once containers from NYC than youve shown either Angelton or Israel had for killing JFK. Is this the best that you can do?



Last edited by naturalplastic on 25 Nov 2013, 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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25 Nov 2013, 7:22 pm

ruveyn wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
So it wanst the Cubans? Niether Castro, nor the anti-castro cubans? And it wasnt LBJ? And it wasnt J. Edgar Hoover? And it wasnt the Mob?

It was the Isrealies who wanted JFK dead?

Why did Israel want him dead?


There have been no Israelites for over 2000 years.

ruveyn


WTF are you talking about?



Arran
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25 Nov 2013, 7:41 pm

I think I am discussing this subject with the wrong audience. I am no expert on James Jesus Angleton but I probably know more about him, and his connections with Israel, than most users of WP do.



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25 Nov 2013, 10:14 pm

Arran wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
And for the motive that Israel allegedly had their American ally killed because he had opposed their having a nuclear weapon is pretty much without substance.


Was President Kennedy really an ally of Israel? I suspect that nuclear weapons are tied up somewhere in the reasons behind his assassination. If the CIA was involved then it's almost impossible that Angleton wasn't involved or had knowledge of an impending assassination. Angleton's close relationship with the Israeli intelligence services is something that needs closer examination. Was the primary reason to use Israel as a pipeline for information from the Soviet Union or was he working to implement Israeli interests in the US? Could Mossad have struck a deal with him to have President Kennedy assassinated in return for supplying him with information from the Soviet Union in the future? Also take into account that the successor of President Kennedy was very pro-Zionist.


Just because Angelton was a CIA higher up doesn't mean he knew about everything his agency was up to, as so much was compartmentalized on a need to know basis. The people who ran Penrmindex and the Anti-Castro underground were not regular CIA, and were only co-opted into their operations. Much of the things they did might as well have been going on the dark side of the moon for all the CIA knew. As these were anticommunist fanatics dedicated heart, mind and soul, who believed Kennedy had betrayed them at every turn from the Bay of Pigs onward, and so had a much more visceral motivation for a possible role in the assassination. Angelton on the other hand was of the mindset that the globe was a chess board, and that the Anti-Castroites were just pawns to be sacrificed. And the fact of the matter is, the people who ran the Mossad had a great deal more in common with Angelton, in that they were coolly detached, seeing the world before them as a game. They were not going to act and react rashly, especially if their actions might result in their country's destruction for committing such a terrible act.


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