Ever Feel Like Someone is BSing with Their Real Beliefs?

Post Reply New Topic

I have been flirting with this one chick who claims to be a feminist (I know there are some actual radical feminist like PuddingMouse, who I have respect for, even if we don't see eye to eye on every issue), but the more i talk with her, the more it seems like a ploy (even though she is a liberal). It just seems like a rouge. Am I over thinking, or perhaps she has cognitive dissonance?

I'm trying to distance myself from the 'radical feminist' label because of the transphobia and and misandry of a lot of people who profess to be radical feminists these days. When I say misandry, I don't use that word lightly (it gets thrown around too much as an accusation against feminists) some of them have a deep contempt for men that I just don't share. I understand it, but I don't agree with it - maybe it's naive of me, but I trust my positive experiences with men to reflect the fact that the two sexes can work well together. It's been my observation that most men, having grown up in a sexist society, are somewhat sexist themselves, but I do believe men can become non-sexist and that they aren't a lost cause just because they have a penis. I understand the need for women-only spaces and outlets but I don't have much time for separatism after meeting my (male) partner. I don't really see a future in that branch of the movement.

I really don't subscribe to third-wave or liberal feminism, either. Some parts of it aren't even what I'd class as feminist any more and I believe some just reflect a consumerist mindset. The intersectional stuff is good in theory, but it has somewhat become an exercise in PC and whataboutery. Also, third-wave feminism itself is so white, able-bodied and middle class that I don't even feel represented myself by this supposedly intersectional movement. Plus, I want a revolution, not a change to the laws - so the liberal element doesn't agree with me.

I feel like Marxist feminism reflects my beliefs more closely. The hard-left on its own is often quite sexist, but the feminist elements in it I tend to agree with. Plus, I can't ignore how gender roles and stereotyping is used to prop up the hegemony of capitalism and consumerism. It's something I can't help but focus on. I can't be like the radical feminists and get upset about a pre-op transwoman using the female toilets (and I can't stand the bigoted way they talk about trans people) when I have much bigger fish to fry.

Is that woman a third-wave/liberal feminist? I notice that some of the younger women in that movement do tend to have cognitive dissonance more often than some of the older liberal feminists, or other types of feminists. That said, if I had stuck with radical feminism, I would've had cognitive dissonance. She's probably still trying to work out her ideas and find out where she fits in society. It's common enough when you're young and trying to deal with new ideas.

True. Even though I do not necessarily agree with Marxism (in the statist sense) , I appreciate your attitude. I speak for myself, and I imagine many others, but my issues with feminism is using state power, their unequal contributions (don't mind things like women soldiers), and just the bitter attitude of some. I wish we could work together more. To me, feminism should be about individuality, not trying to group people off. Regardless.

I'm a libertarian (anarchist) Marxist, so I agree with you on the state power criticism. Feminism is not about individuality for me, it's about women (which is a group, however broad it is.) We're put into groups like male, female, black and white regardless of whether we chose to be put into them, and groups have collective interests. Women are, generally, an oppressed group in relation to men (though some women have more power than men), so hence the need for feminism. Once actual freedom exists, it won't be an issue.

I think individuality should be encouraged where it's genuine and not the false version of it promoted under the current system (which is one where the elites use this idea of individuality to promote their own collective interest.) Individuality is only meaningful when there is also freedom, which we currently don't have.

I agree. I find it ridiculous when people say we are individualistic. I guess what I was getting at is that liberals or others try and break people into groups, but for no reason. What I think should happen is to have freedom for everyone, since I believe the state apparatus often uses certain collectives to push their interests, even if they are legitimate causes (such as women, LGBTQ, and other minorities). What they really need is freedom . And all in all, that is what people need.

As for criticism, I guess I just think that we are all equal, and if that is the case, no gender, or peoples, or anything should be put above another. Thus, women shouldn't be over men, and vice versa (which sometimes seems to be the case). BTW, Marx was a decent writer, unlike some others within the lefts ranks (such as Lenin, he was such a suck up haha).

I lived with a girl who was early 20's but mentally going on 15 who professed all these left leaning liberal beliefs but she had a hard time following through on them. She also seemed threatened by people who actually put a bit of time and effort into refining their own views and positions instead of just being a reactionary left voting hipster. She asked my girlfriend and I who we named our cat after. My girlfriend started to explain who the person was and the girl burst out laughing so my girlfriend just felt like there was no point going on. I'm like that too, if someone laughs or mocks I put a wall up and don't discuss politics with them from that point on. Oh, unless they try to bring stuff up that they believe in then I make them look silly. This one in particular was vegetarian for several years. Good on her, I applaud that commitment. But after mocking mine and other people's beliefs I decided to put her in her place when she got a bit too in your face about vegetarianism. I just pointed out the meat industry is probably more humane than egg and dairy because at least the animal dies and can't suffer any more whereas chickens and dairy cows live for years producing food (neither of which I consume but I do occasionally eat chicken). Within a couple of weeks of saying that she was supposedly vegan and stopped having dairy and eggs. I didn't want to change her, she just felt she had to because she'd been one upped. For people like that it's a game, 'look how progressive I am' Oh except she'd still eat eggs from my girlfriend's pet chickens even though she'd b***h about one of them having a swollen sore foot. Lol, if you think it's suffering then don't eat it's eggs you stoopid f$%&ing hipster. And for all her talk about loving animals she used to be an A-grade c#&t towards our kitten that we rescued. Such an airhead. People who do one thing and say another can be pretty trying so I know what you mean.